Analogman - Sun Bender

bootle · Post by **bootle** » 16 Apr 2012, 18:54

Supposedly a Tonebender Mk1.5, but looks to me like a Sunface with OC-type trannys.

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showth ... =Sunbender

GuitarlCarl · Post by **GuitarlCarl** » 16 Apr 2012, 20:57

The main difference between a sunface and a fuzzface is the sundial...the difference between a fuzzface and a MK 1.5 is what? Component values? Now calling it a sun bender isn't so much of a stretch...All the variances of fuzzfaces and tonebenders, isn't any different than all the variances of tubescreamers... yer still splittin' hairs. Plus yer reading that dumbass gearpage again....

Seiche · Post by **Seiche** » 16 Apr 2012, 21:16

GuitarlCarl wrote:The main difference between a sunface and a fuzzface is the sundial...the difference between a fuzzface and a MK 1.5 is what? Component values?

yeah component values and trannies. Now if you only change the trannies, is it really a bender? of course, no idea about the pots.

sinner · Post by **sinner** » 16 Apr 2012, 21:21

component values are far from mk1.5, wrong e-caps, resistor values are wrong ether. It's not tonebender mk1.5 componentwise

phibes · Post by **phibes** » 17 Apr 2012, 04:43

GuitarlCarl wrote:Plus yer reading that dumbass gearpage again....

Sinner's got a point though. The MK1.5 is a Fuzz Face variant but the values on the board are the same as the Sunface expect for different transistors. Transistors are OC but the purists would make the argument on the generic vs OC75 thing, looks like the gain is 91 on one of the transistors so that's different than sunface gains I spose. The woof will be different though with the sunface's 1u/33K vs the MK1.5's 5u/47K. You get more spit with 47K vs 33K. The series resistor on the bias (sun-dial) pot won't make a difference as it's changeable.

But yeah, like Carl said, it's just booteek marketing. I figured he woulda of used MK1.5 values though since it's such a small circuit!!!

beedotman · Post by **beedotman** » 17 Apr 2012, 14:26

Trannies seems to be OC72.
There are two numbers on Q2 - 176 and 53 or something like that. 176 seems to be pretty high as for Q2... maybe it's leakage? and 53 is hfe?

Seiche · Post by **Seiche** » 17 Apr 2012, 14:47

AM seems to get a lot of mileage out of that pcb. good for him.

GuitarlCarl · Post by **GuitarlCarl** » 17 Apr 2012, 15:48

sinner wrote:component values are far from mk1.5, wrong e-caps, resistor values are wrong ether. It's not tonebender mk1.5 componentwise

I agree bro, my comment only meant basic layout. People have taken the TS and modded the crap out of it and when they call it something else, we all jump in and say yeah its just a TubeScreamer.... Now when someone takes a FuzzFace and changes values, even adding bits like the sundial, it's still just a FuzzFace... Really is the layout of the MK 1.5 that much different from a FF? That is why he can use the same little board. But what makes it a "Bender"? I think that's what yer gettin' at, and I agree...

phibes · Post by **phibes** » 17 Apr 2012, 16:04

Totally agree my man.

The Rotagilla · Post by **The Rotagilla** » 17 Apr 2012, 19:34

Or thereabouts.

Electric Warrior · Post by **Electric Warrior** » 19 Apr 2012, 13:56

Fuzz Face usually has a 2.5µF input cap and a linear volume pot.

Skreddy · Post by **Skreddy** » 19 Apr 2012, 17:09

When I made my "Sideway Down" Mk1.5, I actually had to use an 18k collector resistor on Q1 to get it to bias without excessive gating at room temp (~71F). That said, I think the sound clip on AM's site indicates he could've probably used the stock resistor to get it closer to the spittiness of the original he was A/B-ing it with. Plus I don't have 500k board-mounted pots, so I use an A100k and change the output cap to .047uf to equalize the highpass filter effect.

phibes · Post by **phibes** » 19 Apr 2012, 20:29

From reading how he got real offensive on TGP, I'm guessing Sunface sales were down and this was a way to stimulate sales. He says he tweaked it to sound like a MK1.5 which I'd get if the values differed from the Sunface...

Seiche · Post by **Seiche** » 19 Apr 2012, 20:36

phibes wrote:From reading how he got real offensive on TGP, I'm guessing Sunface sales were down and this was a way to stimulate sales. He says he tweaked it to sound like a MK1.5 which I'd get if the values differed from the Sunface...

to be fair, he did change a little bit. that resistor next to the lower left cap is gone and the value of the yellow cap isnt clear. also the pots (and transistors i supposed, although he always has offered the sunface with different ones). The gain of the transistors seems rather low too, if the interpretation of the numbers written on them is correct (~50).

but yeah, it's basically a sunface.

beedotman · Post by **beedotman** » 21 Apr 2012, 12:15

without pre-gain trimpot, but with added 47uF filtering cap

phibes · Post by **phibes** » 21 Apr 2012, 19:46

Seiche wrote:
phibes wrote:From reading how he got real offensive on TGP, I'm guessing Sunface sales were down and this was a way to stimulate sales. He says he tweaked it to sound like a MK1.5 which I'd get if the values differed from the Sunface...
to be fair, he did change a little bit. that resistor next to the lower left cap is gone and the value of the yellow cap isnt clear. also the pots (and transistors i supposed, although he always has offered the sunface with different ones). The gain of the transistors seems rather low too, if the interpretation of the numbers written on them is correct (~50).

but yeah, it's basically a sunface.

Well the resistor on the lower left (sun dial limiting resistor) is usually on the bottom of the board so that's usually not there. Gains don't seem to low, weren't the Sunface gains in the 50s and 60s? I guess my point is more or less he wrote he tweaked the MK1.5 circuit until he got it sounding like an MK1.5 but the parts you normally tweak (input cap, Q1's collector resistor and the series resistor off the battery) are just SunFace values. Looks more like marketing than tweaking to me.

mmolteratx · Post by **mmolteratx** » 23 Apr 2012, 10:11

The Rotagilla wrote:

Or thereabouts.

I don't feel like doing calculations but 1u and 4u7 input caps should make little to no audible difference, IIRC from when I was messing around with the Fuzz Face. Collector on Q1 isn't a big deal, depending on gain/leakage of Q1. The 680R/"Sun Dial" voltage divider really just gives you a bit more output without significantly affecting the bias of Q2. Really the MK1.5 and Fuzz Face are the exact same pedal except for bias differences and without readings from the pedal itself, we don't really know if that was compensated for.

Analogman - Sun Bender [traced]