FAL - Treble booster from 1967 [schematic]
- LucifersTrip
- Resistor Ronker
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since there's little interest in obscure vintage stuff on the other forum, I'll pot my built report here, too
original from pic above:
just got done with a ton of experimentation...
I started with a low leak 80 hfe ge, 80uA leakage with 9.6V adapter. K = K from base to (-). All voltages below are (-)
The transistor turns on at around 2V (collector), which for me was 38K (250K pot subbed for the 68K). The V increases along with K. I actually got a decent tone all the way from 2.5V to to 8.6V (250K), but there is sweet spot in the 5 - 6.5V range (~60 - 90K). The 68K gave me 5.2V. If you raise the V into the 6's, 7's, etc there's some treble loss...which might be better if you think it's too harsh at lower V.
With a lower gain transistor, you'll get a higher voltage on the collector, so you have to lower the K to get that 5 - 6.5V range. The lower gain ones (< 50 hfe) in the circuit are totally predictable...less volume, less sharpness, etc, but still sound decent. ...and it's the opposite with higher gain. In the end, I went with a 2N398A with gain 110 and leakage 100uA. It was a little louder & brighter.
Don't use anything with higher leakage. Just like with the Rangemaster, it adds hiss.
I tried silicon with hfe ~ 130 and the collector voltage was higher than with ge with the same K. So, you have to lower the K to hit the 5 - 6.5V range. For that transistor, I was in the 50 - 55K range for the sweet spot. It really wasn't as bad or harsh as I expected, but I didn't like it nearly as much as the ge transistor.
The silicon turned on around 20K (2.5V), so I can't see any way that 6.8K can be correct if the other values are accurate.
I tried a 3V supply with the 110 hfe ge and it worked right off. The K value for the sweet spot was the same as with 9V supply (~60 - 90K) and the voltage sweet spot was around 2V. Similar to using a low gain transistor, it simply wasn't as loud, sharp or bright...but still decent.
Final version:
original from pic above:
just got done with a ton of experimentation...
I started with a low leak 80 hfe ge, 80uA leakage with 9.6V adapter. K = K from base to (-). All voltages below are (-)
The transistor turns on at around 2V (collector), which for me was 38K (250K pot subbed for the 68K). The V increases along with K. I actually got a decent tone all the way from 2.5V to to 8.6V (250K), but there is sweet spot in the 5 - 6.5V range (~60 - 90K). The 68K gave me 5.2V. If you raise the V into the 6's, 7's, etc there's some treble loss...which might be better if you think it's too harsh at lower V.
With a lower gain transistor, you'll get a higher voltage on the collector, so you have to lower the K to get that 5 - 6.5V range. The lower gain ones (< 50 hfe) in the circuit are totally predictable...less volume, less sharpness, etc, but still sound decent. ...and it's the opposite with higher gain. In the end, I went with a 2N398A with gain 110 and leakage 100uA. It was a little louder & brighter.
Don't use anything with higher leakage. Just like with the Rangemaster, it adds hiss.
I tried silicon with hfe ~ 130 and the collector voltage was higher than with ge with the same K. So, you have to lower the K to hit the 5 - 6.5V range. For that transistor, I was in the 50 - 55K range for the sweet spot. It really wasn't as bad or harsh as I expected, but I didn't like it nearly as much as the ge transistor.
The silicon turned on around 20K (2.5V), so I can't see any way that 6.8K can be correct if the other values are accurate.
I tried a 3V supply with the 110 hfe ge and it worked right off. The K value for the sweet spot was the same as with 9V supply (~60 - 90K) and the voltage sweet spot was around 2V. Similar to using a low gain transistor, it simply wasn't as loud, sharp or bright...but still decent.
Final version:
- pinkjimiphoton
- Transistor Tuner
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awesome bro. thanks!!!
it's a nice sounding hen's tooth, surprised nobody on the other forum found it worth checking out.
it lives again...right on.
it's a nice sounding hen's tooth, surprised nobody on the other forum found it worth checking out.
it lives again...right on.
"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace."
Slava Ukraini!
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- pinkjimiphoton
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there's videos that totally suck of about 90 of 'em here:
http://youtube.com/666pinkster
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found this surfin around... apparently more like 1974 than 67
http://www.studio250.fr/docs/divers%20e ... acat74.pdf
http://www.studio250.fr/docs/divers%20e ... acat74.pdf
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- tube-exorcist
- Resistor Ronker
Only because someone wrote 74 in the filename ?pinkjimiphoton wrote:found this surfin around... apparently more like 1974 than 67
http://www.studio250.fr/docs/divers%20e ... acat74.pdf
In 1974:
- Goya didn´t sell a Panther Fuzz
- A new "Arbiter" Fuzz Face didn´t exist (it was already "Dallas Music Industries" - after having been "Dallas-Arbiter" for years)
- ....
So....
"I've noticed there's an inverse relationship between cost of gear and talent. If you need the most expensive gear to get decent tones, then you suck as a player."
- pinkjimiphoton
- Transistor Tuner
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- Joined: 12 Sep 2010, 19:03
- my favorite amplifier: my own, a redesigned princeton
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there's videos that totally suck of about 90 of 'em here:
http://youtube.com/666pinkster
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perhaps someone wrote 74 on the front of the catalog the person scanned just to be a dick 40 years later. beats me. first non EDB thing i've seen mention the FAL since i got the one this thread was about. so troll on, dude, troll on.
you would be absolutely surprised to see some of the stuff offered in catalogs to music vendors, in some cases years or even decades after the units were no longer produced. suppliers (pre internet) would often have stuff for sale years after the manufacturers discontinued production.
one of the local supply houses here was still offering kay fuzztones (in their lovely little orange plastic wah shells) when i was still doing woodwind and brass repairs in the early NINETIES.,.. a good 20 years after they'd been produced. when you factor in some other aspects, it's entirely possible that this is indeed from 1974, just as it's possible someone wrote 1974 on the file name. shit, i used to be able to drive the next town over to the music people and buy shit direct (now on-stage , rather than the music people) and used to buy vintage nos schaller guitar pickups and all kindsa stuff....effects, speakers, hardware etc.... that had been discontinued years before. i bought possibly the last kay fuzztone from gale's music in willimantic ct around 1987 for i think 20 bux new. when were they produced? you must know, as you know everything.
once the internet became widely used, most of this ended as people put stuff online instead of hoarding it. why hang on to a crate of fuzztones you can't sell for a normal price when you can put 'em online and someone will pay 5 or 6 x as much for them? no brainer.
for someone who's so sure i'm an attention whore, ya sure seem to spend some time trolling. feel better now? kisses. lol
you would be absolutely surprised to see some of the stuff offered in catalogs to music vendors, in some cases years or even decades after the units were no longer produced. suppliers (pre internet) would often have stuff for sale years after the manufacturers discontinued production.
one of the local supply houses here was still offering kay fuzztones (in their lovely little orange plastic wah shells) when i was still doing woodwind and brass repairs in the early NINETIES.,.. a good 20 years after they'd been produced. when you factor in some other aspects, it's entirely possible that this is indeed from 1974, just as it's possible someone wrote 1974 on the file name. shit, i used to be able to drive the next town over to the music people and buy shit direct (now on-stage , rather than the music people) and used to buy vintage nos schaller guitar pickups and all kindsa stuff....effects, speakers, hardware etc.... that had been discontinued years before. i bought possibly the last kay fuzztone from gale's music in willimantic ct around 1987 for i think 20 bux new. when were they produced? you must know, as you know everything.
once the internet became widely used, most of this ended as people put stuff online instead of hoarding it. why hang on to a crate of fuzztones you can't sell for a normal price when you can put 'em online and someone will pay 5 or 6 x as much for them? no brainer.
for someone who's so sure i'm an attention whore, ya sure seem to spend some time trolling. feel better now? kisses. lol
"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace."
Slava Ukraini!
Slava Ukraini!
- pinkjimiphoton
- Transistor Tuner
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there's videos that totally suck of about 90 of 'em here:
http://youtube.com/666pinkster
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thanks graemy, perfect!! first shot of the trace side i've seen, thank you so much man!!
kinda answers the questions of what connects where. awesome. will download and do another layout based on this.
thanks again man!!
kinda answers the questions of what connects where. awesome. will download and do another layout based on this.
thanks again man!!
"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace."
Slava Ukraini!
Slava Ukraini!
- pinkjimiphoton
- Transistor Tuner
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- Joined: 12 Sep 2010, 19:03
- my favorite amplifier: my own, a redesigned princeton
- Completed builds: so fucking many goddamn pedals it would make your ass hurt just looking at 'em all!!!!!
there's videos that totally suck of about 90 of 'em here:
http://youtube.com/666pinkster
gimme a like: http://facebook.com/pinkjimiphotonrocks - Location: new world order land (formerly la-la land)
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hey graemy,
could you please verify the value of the caps and the transistor?
thanks bud!
could you please verify the value of the caps and the transistor?
thanks bud!
"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace."
Slava Ukraini!
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- Manfred
- Tube Twister
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Hi greamy,graemey wrote:Here's mine if it helps...
thanks for sharing.
How are the dimensions of the PCB.
- graemey
- Breadboard Brother
- pinkjimiphoton
- Transistor Tuner
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- my favorite amplifier: my own, a redesigned princeton
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there's videos that totally suck of about 90 of 'em here:
http://youtube.com/666pinkster
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thank graemey, this is awesome... worked up a vero, gonna go knock it up in my basement
fwiw, the specs on the tranny:
NKT216 Transistor Datasheet. Parameters and Characteristics.
Type Designator: NKT216
Material of transistor: Ge
Polarity: PNP
Maximum collector power dissipation (Pc), W: 0.2
Maximum collector-base voltage |Ucb|, V: 32
Maximum collector-emitter voltage |Uce|, V: 18
Maximum emitter-base voltage |Ueb|, V: 10
Maximum collector current |Ic max|, A: 0.25
Maksimalna temperatura (Tj), °C: 90
Transition frequency (ft), MHz: 0.5
Collector capacitance (Cc), pF: 60
Forward current transfer ratio (hFE), min: 50
Noise Figure, dB: -
Package of NKT216 transistor: TO1
fwiw, the specs on the tranny:
NKT216 Transistor Datasheet. Parameters and Characteristics.
Type Designator: NKT216
Material of transistor: Ge
Polarity: PNP
Maximum collector power dissipation (Pc), W: 0.2
Maximum collector-base voltage |Ucb|, V: 32
Maximum collector-emitter voltage |Uce|, V: 18
Maximum emitter-base voltage |Ueb|, V: 10
Maximum collector current |Ic max|, A: 0.25
Maksimalna temperatura (Tj), °C: 90
Transition frequency (ft), MHz: 0.5
Collector capacitance (Cc), pF: 60
Forward current transfer ratio (hFE), min: 50
Noise Figure, dB: -
Package of NKT216 transistor: TO1
"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace."
Slava Ukraini!
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- pinkjimiphoton
- Transistor Tuner
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- Posts: 1242
- Joined: 12 Sep 2010, 19:03
- my favorite amplifier: my own, a redesigned princeton
- Completed builds: so fucking many goddamn pedals it would make your ass hurt just looking at 'em all!!!!!
there's videos that totally suck of about 90 of 'em here:
http://youtube.com/666pinkster
gimme a like: http://facebook.com/pinkjimiphotonrocks - Location: new world order land (formerly la-la land)
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i think i can do veros in my sleep at this point.
not much to this one!
maybe will try and build tonite, i got a bunch of repairs on my bench at the moment... there's a quilt over all the electronic stuff
cuz i had to do some guitar stuff.
would love to hear a clip of the original if you can post one, that would be most awesome as well!!
not much to this one!
maybe will try and build tonite, i got a bunch of repairs on my bench at the moment... there's a quilt over all the electronic stuff
cuz i had to do some guitar stuff.
would love to hear a clip of the original if you can post one, that would be most awesome as well!!
"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace."
Slava Ukraini!
Slava Ukraini!
- Manfred
- Tube Twister
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I made a reproduction of the Original PCB.
[img]http://postimg.org/image/671b05hvd/][img]http://s12.postimg.org/671b05hvd/FAL_PCB_Layout.jpg[/img]
[img]http://postimg.org/image/kmemlb5ix/][img]http://s12.postimg.org/kmemlb5ix/FAL_Components.jpg[/img]
[img]http://postimg.org/image/7wae87xkp/][img]http://s12.postimg.org/7wae87xkp/FAL_PCB.jpg[/img]
[img]http://postimg.org/image/671b05hvd/][img]http://s12.postimg.org/671b05hvd/FAL_PCB_Layout.jpg[/img]
[img]http://postimg.org/image/kmemlb5ix/][img]http://s12.postimg.org/kmemlb5ix/FAL_Components.jpg[/img]
[img]http://postimg.org/image/7wae87xkp/][img]http://s12.postimg.org/7wae87xkp/FAL_PCB.jpg[/img]
- Manfred
- Tube Twister
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Sorry, the links do not work.
- Manfred
- Tube Twister
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Please find attached the Sprint-Layout6 file for the FAL.
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- FAL.zip
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- Manfred
- Tube Twister
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Layout Update, added few texts.
Ready to print PDF-files:
SprintLayout6.0-file:
- pinkjimiphoton
- Transistor Tuner
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- Posts: 1242
- Joined: 12 Sep 2010, 19:03
- my favorite amplifier: my own, a redesigned princeton
- Completed builds: so fucking many goddamn pedals it would make your ass hurt just looking at 'em all!!!!!
there's videos that totally suck of about 90 of 'em here:
http://youtube.com/666pinkster
gimme a like: http://facebook.com/pinkjimiphotonrocks - Location: new world order land (formerly la-la land)
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thanks to David Fraser for these pics of inside of his fal treble booster....
hey johan, i can't post pics?
hey johan, i can't post pics?
"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace."
Slava Ukraini!
Slava Ukraini!
- pinkjimiphoton
- Transistor Tuner
Information
- Posts: 1242
- Joined: 12 Sep 2010, 19:03
- my favorite amplifier: my own, a redesigned princeton
- Completed builds: so fucking many goddamn pedals it would make your ass hurt just looking at 'em all!!!!!
there's videos that totally suck of about 90 of 'em here:
http://youtube.com/666pinkster
gimme a like: http://facebook.com/pinkjimiphotonrocks - Location: new world order land (formerly la-la land)
- Has thanked: 358 times
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- Contact:
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"When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace."
Slava Ukraini!
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- nightraven
- Breadboard Brother
Here's my early FAL, c.1964/65 (estimated by the dates of the various ads). I've only ever come across one other in the white case, and it had a NKT transistor of some sort (presumably like the later black models). My white one has a black glass OC44.
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