Behringer - Hellbabe Wah
http://www.flickr.com/photos/loscha/3738790108/
I took a few photos of mine the other day, just before I found this forum (through the search term "Behringer Inductor").
I've done some mods to the Octave pedal as well, I will post them soon.
Basically, I tapped the raw signal from the Flip-Flop, and fed it through a pot and a cap to the audio out, so it works regardless of pedal being on or off.
Very fuzzy filthy sound, rich in upper harmonics, sounds super fantastic through a Funk-A-Duck or Behringer Filter Machine (aka Line 6 Otto Filter), of which I have taken photos of the inside of, and will also be uploaded soon.
-Edward, hardcore Behringer Modder.
I took a few photos of mine the other day, just before I found this forum (through the search term "Behringer Inductor").
I've done some mods to the Octave pedal as well, I will post them soon.
Basically, I tapped the raw signal from the Flip-Flop, and fed it through a pot and a cap to the audio out, so it works regardless of pedal being on or off.
Very fuzzy filthy sound, rich in upper harmonics, sounds super fantastic through a Funk-A-Duck or Behringer Filter Machine (aka Line 6 Otto Filter), of which I have taken photos of the inside of, and will also be uploaded soon.
-Edward, hardcore Behringer Modder.
Here's a simple and not so intrusive way of implementing true bypass.
Cut the "power on" notch of the moving plastic light shield all the way so that light always shines on the "power on" LDR. This will make your hellbabe be on all the time.
Install your TBP switch and tap into the input and output jacks. Wire your TBP'ed jacks separate from the hellbabe. That's it.
Here's a pic of mine :
Cut the "power on" notch of the moving plastic light shield all the way so that light always shines on the "power on" LDR. This will make your hellbabe be on all the time.
Install your TBP switch and tap into the input and output jacks. Wire your TBP'ed jacks separate from the hellbabe. That's it.
Here's a pic of mine :
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- Posts: 2
- Joined: 07 Sep 2009, 12:45
- my favorite amplifier: Marshall
- Completed builds: I have completed the Behringer Hellbabe HB01 Optical Wah Pot Mod
Hi,
I am trying to install a true bypass mod but i cant find any information on how to do it on this type of pedal as most wah pedals generally have 1 circuit board as apposed to the 2 separate ones in the HB01
PLEASE HELP!!!
I am trying to install a true bypass mod but i cant find any information on how to do it on this type of pedal as most wah pedals generally have 1 circuit board as apposed to the 2 separate ones in the HB01
PLEASE HELP!!!
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- Posts: 1
- Joined: 05 Dec 2009, 20:32
I have a Thomas 95-910511 cry baby and a Behringer HB01 Hellbabe wah.
I like both but prefer the sound of the cry baby.
I calculate that a mod (changing HB01 C19 to 5.6nF) would make them sound more similar.
My reasoning is as follows:
I set the HB01 to boost off, Q = cw, fine = cw, range = ccw
which I found to most closely mimic the cry baby.
I applied a 200 mv p-p sine wave and swept the frequency,
watched for resonance (max amplitude) on an oscilloscope,
measured frequency with a multimeter and measured amplitude with the scope.
With 200 mv p-p in I found the pedal up vs pedal down resonant outputs to be
820 mv @ 517 Hz to 1360 mv @ 2292 Hz for the cry baby and
800 mv @ 475 Hz to 1850 mv @ 1859 Hz for the HB01.
Note the lower pedal down resonant frequency on the HB01.
On the cry baby with the pedal down the wah pot is ccw and there is low resistance from wiper to ground,
and there is 100k from the wiper to the top of the pot.
On the HB01 this corresponds to low resistance of illuminated LDR2, and 100k at R9.
In either wah with the pedal down there is minimal negative feedback from the second transistor
(T3 on the HB01) and the resonant frequency is mainly determined by the inductor and the
capacitor in series with the inductor (L1 and C19 on the HB01).
The cry baby has a 510mH inductor and .01uF (10nF) capacitor.
In this thread the HB01 was said to have 900mH inductor, and C19 is 8.2nF.
The formula for resonant frequency is F = 1 / (2*pi*(sqrt(LC))).
For the cry baby with 510mH and .01uF (10nF) F calculates to 2230 Hz, which is close to what I measured.
For the HB01 with 900mH and 8.2nF F calculates to 1854 Hz which again is close to what I measured.
This also supports the 900mH inductor value for the HB01.
The HB01 has a lower pedal down resonant frequency because the LC product is higher.
The inductor value is 76% higher but the C19 value is only 18% lower.
To achieve a pedal down resonant frequency similar to the cry baby
the HB01 should have a .0056uF (5.6nF) at C19.
Then the HB01 resonant frequency calculates to 2243 Hz.
C19 is an 0603 surface mount capacitor (.06" x .03").
Changing this might be a more effective route than enlarging the cutout,
especially if you want to increase the resonant frequency to match a classic cry baby.
If LDR2 is already sufficiently lit to get minimum resistance then further enlarging cutout
will not further increase the pedal down resonant frequency.
The HB01 is said to be a clone of the Dunlop cry baby from hell, which I do not have.
My comments are geared to the Thomas 95-910511 cry baby which I do have.
Thanks to Jimmy for posting the Behringer wah schematic.
I found some spots that I think are not correct:
1: R16 (11k) in the boost circuit goes to pin 13 on the op amp, not pin 14.
2: R9 (10k) goes to +9V, not X8 pin 6; and X8 pin 6 goes directly to CD4069 pin 9.
3: The junction of LD2 cathode and LDR1 should be connected to ground.
4: The 470k resistor network R35 should have pins 5,6,7,8 tied to VB (+4.5V).
5: IC1 is the CD4069 and IC2 is the TL064.
I like both but prefer the sound of the cry baby.
I calculate that a mod (changing HB01 C19 to 5.6nF) would make them sound more similar.
My reasoning is as follows:
I set the HB01 to boost off, Q = cw, fine = cw, range = ccw
which I found to most closely mimic the cry baby.
I applied a 200 mv p-p sine wave and swept the frequency,
watched for resonance (max amplitude) on an oscilloscope,
measured frequency with a multimeter and measured amplitude with the scope.
With 200 mv p-p in I found the pedal up vs pedal down resonant outputs to be
820 mv @ 517 Hz to 1360 mv @ 2292 Hz for the cry baby and
800 mv @ 475 Hz to 1850 mv @ 1859 Hz for the HB01.
Note the lower pedal down resonant frequency on the HB01.
On the cry baby with the pedal down the wah pot is ccw and there is low resistance from wiper to ground,
and there is 100k from the wiper to the top of the pot.
On the HB01 this corresponds to low resistance of illuminated LDR2, and 100k at R9.
In either wah with the pedal down there is minimal negative feedback from the second transistor
(T3 on the HB01) and the resonant frequency is mainly determined by the inductor and the
capacitor in series with the inductor (L1 and C19 on the HB01).
The cry baby has a 510mH inductor and .01uF (10nF) capacitor.
In this thread the HB01 was said to have 900mH inductor, and C19 is 8.2nF.
The formula for resonant frequency is F = 1 / (2*pi*(sqrt(LC))).
For the cry baby with 510mH and .01uF (10nF) F calculates to 2230 Hz, which is close to what I measured.
For the HB01 with 900mH and 8.2nF F calculates to 1854 Hz which again is close to what I measured.
This also supports the 900mH inductor value for the HB01.
The HB01 has a lower pedal down resonant frequency because the LC product is higher.
The inductor value is 76% higher but the C19 value is only 18% lower.
To achieve a pedal down resonant frequency similar to the cry baby
the HB01 should have a .0056uF (5.6nF) at C19.
Then the HB01 resonant frequency calculates to 2243 Hz.
C19 is an 0603 surface mount capacitor (.06" x .03").
Changing this might be a more effective route than enlarging the cutout,
especially if you want to increase the resonant frequency to match a classic cry baby.
If LDR2 is already sufficiently lit to get minimum resistance then further enlarging cutout
will not further increase the pedal down resonant frequency.
The HB01 is said to be a clone of the Dunlop cry baby from hell, which I do not have.
My comments are geared to the Thomas 95-910511 cry baby which I do have.
Thanks to Jimmy for posting the Behringer wah schematic.
I found some spots that I think are not correct:
1: R16 (11k) in the boost circuit goes to pin 13 on the op amp, not pin 14.
2: R9 (10k) goes to +9V, not X8 pin 6; and X8 pin 6 goes directly to CD4069 pin 9.
3: The junction of LD2 cathode and LDR1 should be connected to ground.
4: The 470k resistor network R35 should have pins 5,6,7,8 tied to VB (+4.5V).
5: IC1 is the CD4069 and IC2 is the TL064.
I accidentally shorted LD2 in my hellbabe maybe not shorted it but it's dead
anyway I had to replace it, having no red LEDs laying around I ended up using a 5 mm pretty bright white LED instead which actually worked fine
I can't hear any big difference although I couldn't do any real comparison
so if I would use a LED more similar to the original one only brighter, my theory is that I'll get more Q or wah
have anyone else tried anything similar?
i should replace it with a laser
anyway I had to replace it, having no red LEDs laying around I ended up using a 5 mm pretty bright white LED instead which actually worked fine
I can't hear any big difference although I couldn't do any real comparison
so if I would use a LED more similar to the original one only brighter, my theory is that I'll get more Q or wah
have anyone else tried anything similar?
i should replace it with a laser
- JiM
- Diode Debunker
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You could enlarge the trapezoïdal hole in the "cardboard" that passes between LED and LDR (not the small triangle, this one is for the sweep), but this would be impossible to undozerbino wrote:I want my HB01 to be always ON. Please tell me what should I mod and where. No true bypass, just "Always ON" mod. Thanks.
Sorry for bad english.
Maybe just bending a little the leads of that pair of LED and LDR, to let them "see each other" all the time, could do the trick.
Or you can shunt (short-circuit) the LDR facing the trapezoïdal hole.
I only give negative feedback.
- FiveseveN
- Cap Cooler
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Nah, you could fix it with black tape or some other opaque material.this would be impossible to undo
Bingo. Plus you could use a switch to short it, in case you'd want to bypass it again.Or you can shunt (short-circuit) the LDR
Decided to mod mine as well last night, out of boredom I guess. Nothing fancy, just cut the toe bumpers and tweaked the light mask. Took hours to get it just right, though. Man, that LDR is sensitive!
Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge. (Charles Darwin)
- JiM
- Diode Debunker
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- Joined: 11 Mar 2008, 22:56
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Proco Rat
MXR MicroAmp in a volume pedal
TubeDriver (w/ NoS russian tube and big muff tone contol) + Phase 45 (w/ univibe cap ratio)
Dallas Rangemaster (w/ noisy OC75, negative ground)
SubCaster tube booster (w/ NoS russian tube, PtP)
Hot Harmonics
Music From Outer Space SubCommander in progress
Crackle Not OK
Simple bass blender in a 1590A
Bazz Fuss with a photo-darlington - Location: France
- Has thanked: 70 times
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Been there, done that. (look at the second post in this thread)FiveseveN wrote:Nah, you could fix it with black tape or some other opaque material.
I just wanted to keep it simple and foolproof for newcomers ...
I only give negative feedback.
Thanks a lot for advice! I'll try it today.JiM wrote:Or you can shunt (short-circuit) the LDR facing the trapezoïdal hole.
I've replace capacitors in my Boss DS-1 with an metal film ones. Sound has changed drastically.
Have anyone replace SMD components in hb01 with a better ones?
On http://www.flickr.com/photos/loscha/3738790108/ they say that TL064c is not good at all either. Have anyone experience of replacing this op-amp to something better?
- mictester
- Old Solderhand
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What do "they" know? The TL064 is just a low current version of the TL074. It's low enough noise,low distortion, has reasonable power output (it will drive long cables), has a fast enough slew rate for any audio, and costs almost nothing! You would be very unlikely to hear any change if you replaced it.zerbino wrote: On http://www.flickr.com/photos/loscha/3738790108/ they say that TL064c is not good at all either. Have anyone experience of replacing this op-amp to something better?
You have to remember that 90% of the perceived "differences" in "sound" between components of similar type is psychoacoustic - people fool themselves into believing that there's a change! They won't do any real A/B comparison, and then turn up on Forums like this and spout nonsense about the wonderful "improvements" they made to their gear. It's usually twaddle.
You have to remember - most commercial pedals were designed by engineers with many years of experience. If there was a good reason to use a "better" component, then they would (unless they're Electro Harmonix who just use whatever crap they got cheap in bulk!). You have to also realise - the price difference between a "cheap" IC and an "expensive" part may be a few cents per thousand when you're buying in tens and hundreds of thousands!
There are sometimes good reasons to alter the frequency response of a tone control, alter the range of gain, or increase an output level, but there's seldom any reason to do much more than that.
The "change your resistors for carbon composition ones" mods are just adding noise and fitting more physically fragile parts.
The "change the capacitors" mods just put in different values (remember - most caps have tolerance spreads as high as +/- 20%!)
The "change the ICs" mods won't give you any real perceived change in sound (unless you go from a 741 to a TL071 in a '70s pedal for lower noise).
The "change the clipping diodes" mods will usually just change the clipping threshold - this can often be more easily changed with a resistor value change.
Remember - anything recommended by a Boutique Boob is almost certain to be wrong - that's why they don't earn really big bucks (like I do) as a proper , qualified designer.
Finally, before I switch rant mode off - it's obscene for those "boutique mod kits" to be sold on ebay. I saw one kit, which has (maybe) $0.15 of parts and a sheet of paper on sale for $60 - that's a bigger mark-up than most drugs! This particular Boutique Boob claimed to have sold hundreds of these "kits" (with life-changing results for the clueless purchasers, of course). These kinds of abuses of pseudo-science need to be exposed!
"Why is it humming?" "Because it doesn't know the words!"
mictester wrote: You have to remember that 90% of the perceived "differences" in "sound" between components of similar type is psychoacoustic - people fool themselves into believing that there's a change!
...psychoacoustic?.... well... ghm...
That's why before changing capacitors in DS1 I've record some chords with original device.mictester wrote: They won't do any real A/B comparison, and then turn up on Forums like this and spout nonsense about the wonderful "improvements" they made to their gear. It's usually twaddle.
After replacing capacitors with an metal film ones, I've record same chords again.
Trust me, there IS difference.
More than this, I've load files into Audacity and checked the waveforms. Modded device give a HELL LOT of sustain. Times MORE than original one.
And it's all clearly can be seen in waveforms.
So, your words may be fair, but I trust MORE to MINE OWN eyes and ears, sorry. May be it's just my "psychoacoustic"...
I just got done whittling away at the triangle hole ( not too much, little on the top and a little on the sides ), and removed the rubber stoppers in the "toe" end of the treadle.
BIG difference! Much more usable now, whereas before...not so much.
I noticed something...the treadle has maybe 1/4 inch of side-to-side motion; when it's all the way to the left, the wha shuts off as soon as I lift my foot, instantaneous bypass. If it's to the right, however, the thing won't disengage till I tap it over to the left side. Anybody else have this, or is mine unique in this aspect?
BIG difference! Much more usable now, whereas before...not so much.
I noticed something...the treadle has maybe 1/4 inch of side-to-side motion; when it's all the way to the left, the wha shuts off as soon as I lift my foot, instantaneous bypass. If it's to the right, however, the thing won't disengage till I tap it over to the left side. Anybody else have this, or is mine unique in this aspect?
- skylark44
- Solder Soldier
Thos is a great thread!...I bought myself a Hellbabe, last year (because I had heard so many good things about how cool they sounded), then ended up returning it, because of all the issues I was having with it ...now that I know where to get mod info for it...I'm gonna get another one, and try modding it...thanx for the cool ideas .
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i'm trying to install true bypass to my hellbabe, because the bypass doesn't work on mine, as others have said above. I have a DPDT switch on the way, and figured i'd get stuff set up for it.
i know i have to modify the LDR's strip that makes it turn on so that it's always on. i'm going to do that last, since that's the easiest. some people have talked about installing their own input and output jacks, and somebody else talked about using the ones that are already on there. which would be better?
either way, i see a problem of removing the signal when we don't want the signal to pass through and out - or should the output be grounded in bypass mode? I don't know much about bypass wiring and how it works.
finally, what's the easiest way to tell which of the 5 plates on the jacks are inputs and ground? I plugged in power supply and 1/4" jack to turn it on, and all but 1 of the plugs will read a 9v with my multimeter. does that mean the jack has 4 grounds and 1 signal plate?
i know i have to modify the LDR's strip that makes it turn on so that it's always on. i'm going to do that last, since that's the easiest. some people have talked about installing their own input and output jacks, and somebody else talked about using the ones that are already on there. which would be better?
either way, i see a problem of removing the signal when we don't want the signal to pass through and out - or should the output be grounded in bypass mode? I don't know much about bypass wiring and how it works.
finally, what's the easiest way to tell which of the 5 plates on the jacks are inputs and ground? I plugged in power supply and 1/4" jack to turn it on, and all but 1 of the plugs will read a 9v with my multimeter. does that mean the jack has 4 grounds and 1 signal plate?
- JiM
- Diode Debunker
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Dallas Rangemaster (w/ noisy OC75, negative ground)
SubCaster tube booster (w/ NoS russian tube, PtP)
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It depends on what it's better at. If you don't mind buying jacks and drilling holes, and have too big soldering iron, go for the former. If you can desolder SMD cleanly, the latter is good.bassk81976 wrote:some people have talked about installing their own input and output jacks, and somebody else talked about using the ones that are already on there. which would be better?
Everything you'd want to know about bypass is here : viewforum.php?f=48bassk81976 wrote:either way, i see a problem of removing the signal when we don't want the signal to pass through and out - or should the output be grounded in bypass mode? I don't know much about bypass wiring and how it works.
The schematic above is accurate on this point. To figure out which lug corresponds to each contact on the schematic, you can use a stereo jack plug, and check for continuity (beep) with a multimeter.bassk81976 wrote:finally, what's the easiest way to tell which of the 5 plates on the jacks are inputs and ground?
I only give negative feedback.
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so, once i find the correct contacts for the input and output jacks, i simply have to solder from the jack to the 3pdt, to the positive contact on the factory jack, right? (following the corresponding tbp layout, of course)
Using a multimeter, with the circuit supplied power, a jack plugged in to turn it on, and with the negative lead the ground lug of the 9v, should the tip plate show 9 volts, while the others show 0? I figured it out this way, but i want to make sure i'm right.
thanks for the help, i hate feeling like a noob and asking lots of questions...but i figure i have to if i don't want to mess pup and solder something wrong.
Using a multimeter, with the circuit supplied power, a jack plugged in to turn it on, and with the negative lead the ground lug of the 9v, should the tip plate show 9 volts, while the others show 0? I figured it out this way, but i want to make sure i'm right.
thanks for the help, i hate feeling like a noob and asking lots of questions...but i figure i have to if i don't want to mess pup and solder something wrong.
Ive decided to turn to you guys because im out of options and im slowly losing my sanity with my hellbabe.
The problem is, the pedal works only in wah mode, when it switches back to clean, theres no signal coming through.
When looking at the schematic that someone has drawn (i believe it was JiM), i can trace the clean signal upto the ''bypass point'' near the output jacks. When i messed around with audioprobe, ive found out that the clean signal is not reaching the output jacks at all. Ive tried connecting it with one of the jacks ( OUT jack) but when i do that there isnt a signal going through at all.
am i doing something wrong? am i missing something? the pedal was like this from the start, it never worked as it should have.
What part of the schematic deals with switching between clean and dirty sound? i believe that's whats not working
The problem is, the pedal works only in wah mode, when it switches back to clean, theres no signal coming through.
When looking at the schematic that someone has drawn (i believe it was JiM), i can trace the clean signal upto the ''bypass point'' near the output jacks. When i messed around with audioprobe, ive found out that the clean signal is not reaching the output jacks at all. Ive tried connecting it with one of the jacks ( OUT jack) but when i do that there isnt a signal going through at all.
am i doing something wrong? am i missing something? the pedal was like this from the start, it never worked as it should have.
What part of the schematic deals with switching between clean and dirty sound? i believe that's whats not working
- Ripdivot
- Resistor Ronker
I had that problem too. Try replacing the fets above. I have had to replace mine twice now. Pedal works for a year or two and then fails again. I actually really like the "bad horsie" type bypass in this thing but I have gone back to my crybaby because I am tired of having to keep doing the same repair to the hellbabe. Obviously something is causing the fet to die but I'm not sure what.Ripdivot wrote:Mine also wouldn't work in bypass either. I repaired it a couple years ago or so. The problem was one of the fets (T1,T2) used for switching. I can't remember which one but I replaced it and it fixed the problem and it's been good ever since.