Subdecay - Echobox

seniorLoco · Post by **seniorLoco** » 03 Jun 2008, 07:53

Brian ...whats that yellow stuff .....

Gila_Crisis · Post by **Gila_Crisis** » 03 Jun 2008, 07:58

yellow mojo slimer!!!! without it it won't sound so good!

gkaiomenos · Post by **gkaiomenos** » 03 Jun 2008, 09:13

could it be yellow mojo covering that noise reduction circuit Brian is talking about?

a 3 transistor noise gate you can find the schem around....

Skreddy · Post by **Skreddy** » 03 Jun 2008, 17:34

Looks like he's using some hot glue or similar substance to provide mechanical relief/stability.

MoreCowbell · Post by **MoreCowbell** » 03 Jun 2008, 19:59

Looks like hot glue / epoxy so that the mini "sub-board" doesn't flop around in the box.

Brian M · Post by **Brian M** » 04 Jun 2008, 09:02

We ordered in some new boards, and have cleaned up the messyness. I decided to pull an A/DA after i built the first one. I wasn't happy with the results, and decided go back to an earlier version with a discrete noisegate. Unfortunately we already had a bunch promised to our dealers, and we were already a few weeks behind for delivery. I drew up a new board and ordered them in as quickly as i could. I also had the new boards made with a white mask so if there are ever any questions about them I can simply ask what color the board is. Many of the resistors were mounted vertically on the first board as well, which I found to be problematic, since the 1/8 watt resistors are hard enough to read anyways... mounting them flush on the board makes finding potential mistkes much easier to find.

Anways, someone mentioned a 3 transistor noise gate, which is exactly what is going on on the sub board... although it wasn't really something i got off the internet.... although the tools are very basic, and stuff anyone familiar with pedals would easilly be able to understand. Essentially it's a mosfet booster, followed by a halfwave rectifier creating a DC voltage... a jfet set up similar to a boss/dod bypass switch system, and then a mosfet or jfet amplifier out to the delay level control. only a few had the mosfet output.

Anyways, normally I make a point not to cover up my work, It is hot glue, which i chose over epoxy because it's much easier to remove should any repairs ever be needed.

We actully use hot glue on the quasar volume control mod boards as well, although those ones look a bit nicer, and the glue is under the board, not over it.

The stupid box also uses it around a couple of the capcitors, because a lot of people seem to step on that pedal with the back cover off so they can access the trim pots easilly... every now and then we get one where one of the caps takes too much pressure, and the solder joints don't hold up.

seniorLoco · Post by **seniorLoco** » 05 Jun 2008, 01:17

ahhh it's all good Brian

now tell us a bid more on the device !!

Skreddy · Post by **Skreddy** » 05 Jun 2008, 03:36

Dude wrings nearly a second of clean delay out of the PT2399; that's sumthin. Plus, his modulation at low delay times is really chorusy sounding.

Brian M · Post by **Brian M** » 05 Jun 2008, 04:33

seniorLoco wrote:ahhh it's all good Brian

now tell us a bid more on the device !!

Well, it's a pt2399 based digital delay. I'm sure most of us have seen one in action, so I'll spare you the details on the delay line.

As already mentioned it has a noise gate circuit at the end of the delay line, which is especially useful with the natural decay feature.

Frequency emphasis and deemphasis is used before and after the delay line similar to many analog delays.

The LFO uses a TLC2262, which runs off the 5V regulator which also powers the pt2399. The advantage of this, is that there wont be a shifting voltage offset as the battery weakens. The LFO wave is filtered quite a bit so it doesnt sound too "triangley"

When in natural decay mode it uses fet switching similar to a boss pedal. when natural decay is off, it runs in true bypass.

I built a bunch of different prototypes, many with different features, over the last year and a half or so. A couple were even BBD based.

The main inspiration for this pedal was the PT80. Not that I blatantly copied anything... in fact it's quite different... but I built a PT80 a few years ago, which I've always been fond of. My other two favorite delay pedals the maxon AD9 and boss DD3 guided me a bit, as far as voicing goes. I wanted it to be somewhere between the two.

Brian M · Post by **Brian M** » 05 Jun 2008, 04:40

Skreddy wrote:Dude wrings nearly a second of clean delay out of the PT2399; that's sumthin. Plus, his modulation at low delay times is really chorusy sounding.

Hi Marc!!!

paperhouse · Post by **paperhouse** » 05 Jun 2008, 07:56

that pedal sounds amazing, check out this video:

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » 05 Jun 2008, 14:25

whats the value of the time pot?

Torchy · Post by **Torchy** » 05 Jun 2008, 14:29

paperhouse wrote:that pedal sounds amazing, check out this video:

Wow, seconded

Nice work

The Rotagilla · Post by **The Rotagilla** » 06 Jun 2008, 00:09

You pushed 800ms out of a single PT2399 without suffering from excessive noise at longer delay times? That must be one hell of a noise filter.

Brian M · Post by **Brian M** » 06 Jun 2008, 01:17

paperhouse wrote:that pedal sounds amazing, check out this video:

They emailed me the day they posted the video. It certainly helps that Andy is a great player.

seniorLoco · Post by **seniorLoco** » 06 Jun 2008, 01:21

Nice

Perhaps a double D for a deluxe version

Hey skreddy ...can you kindly reply my PM ..unless you are ignoring me

Brian M · Post by **Brian M** » 06 Jun 2008, 02:28

seniorLoco wrote:Nice
Perhaps a double D for a deluxe version

Hey skreddy ...can you kindly reply my PM ..unless you are ignoring me

I thought a multi tap echo with 2 or 4 2399's would be kind of fun. for a 4 tap the number of knobs required get's a bit ridiculous.

jakehop · Post by **jakehop** » 13 Jun 2008, 04:29

Hey Brian,

That pedal sounds fantastic. I need to look into the PT80-project soon.

It's also admirable that you are so open about your products. It really tells something about a person and his work. I build for myself and friends, but I have a lot of guitar students besides my own study, that need cool gear, and I always keep a list of good people they can buy stuff from. It's a very confusing market for the young guitarist, and it's nice to be able to say "Check this one out. It sounds great, and the guy who makes them takes pride in his work." Keep it up.

Jake

Brian M · Post by **Brian M** » 13 Jun 2008, 09:30

jakehop wrote:Hey Brian,

That pedal sounds fantastic. I need to look into the PT80-project soon.

It's also admirable that you are so open about your products. It really tells something about a person and his work. I build for myself and friends, but I have a lot of guitar students besides my own study, that need cool gear, and I always keep a list of good people they can buy stuff from. It's a very confusing market for the young guitarist, and it's nice to be able to say "Check this one out. It sounds great, and the guy who makes them takes pride in his work." Keep it up.

Jake

Hi Jake,

I truly enjoy the design part of what i do. That is the fun part... watching something go from an idea to a product. I actually feel like a kid at christmas when new PCB's show up. I guess that is part of being involved in the whole process.

I also enjoy this forum a bit simply because people talk about things i am interested in. When i first started posting here, i was a bit defensive... but I think I have made peace with most of the people i offended, especially after getting to understand their perspective a bit better. I don't think most people here, especially the regulars have any kind of malicious intentions.

Also, I don't mind being open... I really don't have anything to hide. I like doing things a bit differently. I'm not going to say I've never borrowed a general idea from a book or from a vintage pedal. In some instances it's really hard not to. In reality all overdrives do the same thing, right? At least in general terms...

It also seems the more you try to hide something, the more determined people will be to find out what it is anyways, so why bother.

As far as your students go, just tell them to trust their ears, and concentrate on what's important. A lot of kids go out and buy loads of effects, yet still use a 10 watt SS amp. Heck, i was one of those kids in the late late 80's and early 90's. I should have been buying up vintage fender amps when they were still cheap

rocklander · Post by **rocklander** » 13 Jun 2008, 10:51

sounds beautiful... nice machine.. I'm gassing! lucky there does not seem to be an NZ dealer...