I will say: Tl062 x 2, PT2399, MC14007UBC.
So do I post pics?
SNAZZY FX - WOW AND FLUTTER [traced]
First time post so this one might be a tease. I was comparing my pt2399 pedal with a band mate's wow and flutter and was surprised at how similar they sounded. I don't know how the politics of pedal guts sharing go and don't want to step on toes or anything.
I will say: Tl062 x 2, PT2399, MC14007UBC.
So do I post pics?
I will say: Tl062 x 2, PT2399, MC14007UBC.
So do I post pics?
-
marmaliser
- Breadboard Brother
Always..Pics or it never happenedkerbang wrote:So do I post pics?
Because they're mostly tantys I've indiscriminately listed the direction of the anode+++ of all polarised caps.
c1 105 down
c2 105 right
c3 105 (next to delay pot) up
c4 104 right
c5 47u up
c6 3.3u down
c7 105 up
c8 105 right
c9 104 up
c10 330u right (Big guy below DELAY POT???)
c11 47u right
c12 224 right
c13 224 right
c14 224 right
c15 333 right
c16 1n
c17 1n
c18 224 left
c19 3.3u down
c20 332 right
c21 100u right
c22 104 down
c23 47u left
c24 100u right
c25 104 right
c26 (my guess is it's one of the C29s)
c27 104 right
c28 104 down
c29 105 left (Top right next to dry/wet)
c29 104 down (to the left of the delay pot)
c30 1n
Hopefully they're all right. some were listed with a 'z' at the end... like '105z'. No idea what the z is.
Diodes at bottom left are 4148 and protection diode at top is 4001.
Is that everything?
c1 105 down
c2 105 right
c3 105 (next to delay pot) up
c4 104 right
c5 47u up
c6 3.3u down
c7 105 up
c8 105 right
c9 104 up
c10 330u right (Big guy below DELAY POT???)
c11 47u right
c12 224 right
c13 224 right
c14 224 right
c15 333 right
c16 1n
c17 1n
c18 224 left
c19 3.3u down
c20 332 right
c21 100u right
c22 104 down
c23 47u left
c24 100u right
c25 104 right
c26 (my guess is it's one of the C29s)
c27 104 right
c28 104 down
c29 105 left (Top right next to dry/wet)
c29 104 down (to the left of the delay pot)
c30 1n
Hopefully they're all right. some were listed with a 'z' at the end... like '105z'. No idea what the z is.
Diodes at bottom left are 4148 and protection diode at top is 4001.
Is that everything?
So has there been any headway on this schematic? I'd love to see how some of the controls are implemented for my own 2399 ideas, but if I could avoid attempting a first trace (from pics no less) it might be better for everyone involved.
-
teej212
- Breadboard Brother
see the midfi electronics clarinot....pt2399 envelope vibrato. this should be similar enough and shouldnt have any surprises really. just a more expanded envelope detector with attack and decay and also feedback and delay timem1ndpunk wrote:So has there been any headway on this schematic? I'd love to see how some of the controls are implemented for my own 2399 ideas, but if I could avoid attempting a first trace (from pics no less) it might be better for everyone involved.
teej212 wrote:see the midfi electronics clarinot....pt2399 envelope vibrato. this should be similar enough and shouldnt have any surprises really. just a more expanded envelope detector with attack and decay and also feedback and delay timem1ndpunk wrote:So has there been any headway on this schematic? I'd love to see how some of the controls are implemented for my own 2399 ideas, but if I could avoid attempting a first trace (from pics no less) it might be better for everyone involved.
Worth saying that anyone interested should follow teej's advice: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=4000&start=80&hilit ... not+deluxe cool circuit by a great guy, entertaining thread, and a good read...
Or to quote Doug, "Thiefs."
For the record, the Wow and Flutter has a much stronger effect than the clarinot.. I don't remember exactly why. Maybe it's because the warp effect is more dramatic, and there are multiple delays in the stock unit. Either way if I could think of anything to wow and flutter I'd trace this before making another clarinot. But until then I find the pedal pretty pointless after all the hours I've spent on my current pt2399. And with these things I can only imagine turning it on for a few seconds, mid song, maybe. 
Neither have vibrato(an LFO) in their original circuits but I should also note that when added, that produces a very different effect.
Neither have vibrato(an LFO) in their original circuits but I should also note that when added, that produces a very different effect.
Hmmm..
Ok I just need to clar-i -fi a few things (get it ?)
I think the reason the sound is different than the clarinot (which I've only heard in video ) is my design is totally different ! I mean I hear what you are saying they are both pt2399 delays utilizing envelope detectors.
but unless I'm wrong , does the clarinot even use a feedback section (this is important at certain time setting to achieve the rubber sound I was after ) ? Or a full buffered wet/dry control--this effects the sound too ? I haven't heard how it's voiced but the wow Is purposely voiced to be dark to imply TAPE.. So clock noise isn't an issue but you can really rubberize it.
Also the method of control is so different .
As is the Gain Setup ?
With a vactrol , you are seeing the ldr element smooth out " transients
I believe the Method of delay control (and I looked at many methods , including bjts , PWM, , fets , etc . I used leads automatically down a different road . And that would be true of any topology . And that's where using your ears comes in .
Like all my pedals , I design with a speaker on . Granted this design was from the earliest years I was making stuff but
It stl started with a DESIRE, an idea , and a block diagram to achieve that
The Main technical influences were
The scott Bernardi Cv controlled pt delay ,as well as the PT-80,
articles I read in ETI, ELEKTOR and posts on sdiy and on diystompboxes , and
Many many hours with breadboards.
also some ken stone notes on
The pt2399 and 2395 or 2396 and I want to say , Paul Williams notes as well ?
I mean back then , 2008, everyone was talking about methods of interacting with the pt2399 because it seemed like an
A great chip , and an Obvious way to expand the capability for such a chip (as a modular guy , I ALWAYS try to find ways of Cv controlling everything. The PT wasn't quite as ubiquitous either .
Anyhow I'm rambling too much
My box -/
I think for my purposes it does exactly what I wanted it to do.
It's often accused of being an fx which is to weird to apply to regular songs by those who Havent sat down with it and movec it , but I think With careful dialing in of the controls (and there are lots of them for the simple reason that
You can "tune " the pitch variations to your playing . ) I even use it for JAZZ!
True --Most of my demos suck and show it being used on full crazy sound settings
But it can be SUBTLE
it is definitely not a fuzz and it can always work as a straight delay
With a nice dark voicing
And now that I'm building them again , I'm making tweaks here , tweaks there to suit different playing styles , customers , etc
anyway it was one of my first designs so I just jumped in and benched stuff up
Till I liked what my guitar sounded like
What more can you ever do ? It seemed to make lots of people happy over the years
Ray marstons articles on MOSFETs and the wonderful electro-music .forum helped me get more
Comfortable with using mosfets instead of otas or bjts for Cv control
Anyway I only jumped in because I saw the word thief.
I certainly didn't set out to copy anyone
Or make anything other
Than a really weird CLEAN pedal that can do a huge range of colored sounds
Incidentally , EVERY iota of the eurorack version was re-designed (from the input staging to the peak detector , to the
Feedback circuitry , pt voicing , EVERYTHING!!
Why ? Because it was designed to handle 20hz to 20khz sawtooth waves with little or no click noise !! And it has true external Cv control over many features plus env out .
so it's really more the IDEA of the fx that matters than the guts (in my book ) because most people who own the module
And the pedal think of them as the same "blox"
My initial goal was to re-create tape getting Mangled and possibly dive bomb stuff as well as MBV guitar swells.
So knowing what I knew then , that leaves buffers , detectors , Amps , feedback , etc .
Ultimately you dial it in .
Funnily enough the modular version has a jumper that allows selection of two different envelope time constants and this adds a lot of fun
Ok sorry to get on so long
I've always appreciated this forum so I just didn't want people to think this design was some cynical
Money grab box
I don't work like that (please check out my other stuff to see just how commercially minded I've been over the years )
I believe in electronics , we all learn from each other
there is so little "new" in analog circuitry , but there is hopefully plenty of new territory in how you integrate ideas, how you approach interface , how you LISTEN to the instruments and also how you listen to what ARTISTS need
I've been lucky enough to be taught by many great books, forums , designers and original sources
And I hope I've helped others learn as well .
anyway I take electronics very very seriously
So to me , to deliberately "lift" others work and slap a new name on it would be the biggest disgrace to myself --beyond that
It's not fun ! figuring things out is fun !
Listen to a wow pedal side by side with a clarinot
I don't think you would think of them as the same beast anymore
and by the way I have nothing but respect for Doug deeper
thanks
And sorry for the brevity
Ok I just need to clar-i -fi a few things (get it ?)
I think the reason the sound is different than the clarinot (which I've only heard in video ) is my design is totally different ! I mean I hear what you are saying they are both pt2399 delays utilizing envelope detectors.
but unless I'm wrong , does the clarinot even use a feedback section (this is important at certain time setting to achieve the rubber sound I was after ) ? Or a full buffered wet/dry control--this effects the sound too ? I haven't heard how it's voiced but the wow Is purposely voiced to be dark to imply TAPE.. So clock noise isn't an issue but you can really rubberize it.
Also the method of control is so different .
As is the Gain Setup ?
With a vactrol , you are seeing the ldr element smooth out " transients
I believe the Method of delay control (and I looked at many methods , including bjts , PWM, , fets , etc . I used leads automatically down a different road . And that would be true of any topology . And that's where using your ears comes in .
Like all my pedals , I design with a speaker on . Granted this design was from the earliest years I was making stuff but
It stl started with a DESIRE, an idea , and a block diagram to achieve that
The Main technical influences were
The scott Bernardi Cv controlled pt delay ,as well as the PT-80,
articles I read in ETI, ELEKTOR and posts on sdiy and on diystompboxes , and
Many many hours with breadboards.
also some ken stone notes on
The pt2399 and 2395 or 2396 and I want to say , Paul Williams notes as well ?
I mean back then , 2008, everyone was talking about methods of interacting with the pt2399 because it seemed like an
A great chip , and an Obvious way to expand the capability for such a chip (as a modular guy , I ALWAYS try to find ways of Cv controlling everything. The PT wasn't quite as ubiquitous either .
Anyhow I'm rambling too much
My box -/
I think for my purposes it does exactly what I wanted it to do.
It's often accused of being an fx which is to weird to apply to regular songs by those who Havent sat down with it and movec it , but I think With careful dialing in of the controls (and there are lots of them for the simple reason that
You can "tune " the pitch variations to your playing . ) I even use it for JAZZ!
True --Most of my demos suck and show it being used on full crazy sound settings
But it can be SUBTLE
it is definitely not a fuzz and it can always work as a straight delay
With a nice dark voicing
And now that I'm building them again , I'm making tweaks here , tweaks there to suit different playing styles , customers , etc
anyway it was one of my first designs so I just jumped in and benched stuff up
Till I liked what my guitar sounded like
What more can you ever do ? It seemed to make lots of people happy over the years
Ray marstons articles on MOSFETs and the wonderful electro-music .forum helped me get more
Comfortable with using mosfets instead of otas or bjts for Cv control
Anyway I only jumped in because I saw the word thief.
I certainly didn't set out to copy anyone
Or make anything other
Than a really weird CLEAN pedal that can do a huge range of colored sounds
Incidentally , EVERY iota of the eurorack version was re-designed (from the input staging to the peak detector , to the
Feedback circuitry , pt voicing , EVERYTHING!!
Why ? Because it was designed to handle 20hz to 20khz sawtooth waves with little or no click noise !! And it has true external Cv control over many features plus env out .
so it's really more the IDEA of the fx that matters than the guts (in my book ) because most people who own the module
And the pedal think of them as the same "blox"
My initial goal was to re-create tape getting Mangled and possibly dive bomb stuff as well as MBV guitar swells.
So knowing what I knew then , that leaves buffers , detectors , Amps , feedback , etc .
Ultimately you dial it in .
Funnily enough the modular version has a jumper that allows selection of two different envelope time constants and this adds a lot of fun
Ok sorry to get on so long
I've always appreciated this forum so I just didn't want people to think this design was some cynical
Money grab box
I don't work like that (please check out my other stuff to see just how commercially minded I've been over the years )
I believe in electronics , we all learn from each other
there is so little "new" in analog circuitry , but there is hopefully plenty of new territory in how you integrate ideas, how you approach interface , how you LISTEN to the instruments and also how you listen to what ARTISTS need
I've been lucky enough to be taught by many great books, forums , designers and original sources
And I hope I've helped others learn as well .
anyway I take electronics very very seriously
So to me , to deliberately "lift" others work and slap a new name on it would be the biggest disgrace to myself --beyond that
It's not fun ! figuring things out is fun !
Listen to a wow pedal side by side with a clarinot
I don't think you would think of them as the same beast anymore
and by the way I have nothing but respect for Doug deeper
thanks
And sorry for the brevity