Death by Audio - Echo Master (gut shots)

General documentation, gut shot, schematic links, ongoing circuit tracing, deep thoughts ... all about boutique stompboxes.
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noise-satan
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Post by noise-satan »

Hi guys,
I have bought this and I am really curious to better understand how it works.
just dismounted but I don't have the skills to track it down.

I am sure someone will have the knowledge!
Anyhow hopefully someone will just find the gut shots interesting :D

cheers

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Dirk_Hendrik
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Post by Dirk_Hendrik »

Thanks for this set of photos showing a fascinating set of mixed signals. :shock:
Sorry. Plain out of planes.

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modman
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Post by modman »

I may take some time for this to get traced, but the only way to guarantee this is to use the attachment function.
Thanks still
Attachments
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KOD87V4.jpg
LSBqq5D.jpg
OnTMbF2.jpg
w0aAqnq.jpg
y0EVQqX.jpg
Y2goC1H.jpg
yAj3A5d.jpg
zffPagh.jpg
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mookyj
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Post by mookyj »

Using plated thru-hole slots would increase reliability in a big way. in well-featured layout tools, it is a simple dialog window assignment in the pad stack. Great purple solder mask.

basicchannel
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Post by basicchannel »

"Quality" DBA solder job, as usual. :P ;)

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plush
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Post by plush »

basicchannel wrote:"Quality" DBA solder job, as usual. :P ;)
At least they did not piss on the board, as they usually do :D

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Post by thetragichero »

basicchannel wrote:"Quality" DBA solder job, as usual. :P ;)
that was my first thought as well... yikes!
dig the pot labeling

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Dirk_Hendrik
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Post by Dirk_Hendrik »

mookyj wrote:Using plated thru-hole slots would increase reliability in a big way.
It may be me but I fail to see which slot's you're referring to.

The whole board shows the job from someone who learned to use the tool but has limited electronics knowledge.
Sorry. Plain out of planes.

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Ice-9
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Post by Ice-9 »

The thing that I see first is the wrong type of pot mounting, long legged pots shoved through the solder pads by about half an inch.
It's fairly straight forward, if you want to start it , press start. You can work out the rest of the controls for yourself !

No silicon heaven ? preposterous ! Where would all the calculators go ?

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Dirk_Hendrik
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Post by Dirk_Hendrik »

... Define wrong. That's the difficult one. If the device works, can one conclude the design is good?

So, in general, the aim for a decent PCB design is to place all parts and connections in the most optimal way. After taking that into account this aim is immediately challenged by all other constraints that interfere. Jack positions, pot positions, non-optimal pin layout of parts... name em. That's where the challenge starts and the fun for the layouter begins. However it also means that the layouter is free to rearrange all other parts for the most optimal placement. What does not fit in such an arrangement, which is completely evident in this board, is that the layouter considers it more important to place all parts in an even spacing or ensures the rotation of all polarized parts it the same. The time pick and place machines placed in grid are far behind us and the polarization thing comes from the time boards were manually populated. Its' almost 2020 gents. Not 1985. The idea that "it looks nice" must prevail over optimization of the design is just plain odd. It's engineering, not free art.

Similar, when done (all is connected n an optimal way) spend some time doing design optimization. As an example look at R13 and wonder how the layout is simplified around that part if it were rotated 180 degrees. Just as well the copper polygons are full of open areas which could have been filled by moving traces a little bit or adding some stitching vias. Five minutes of work for better shielding and less chemical waste. To name a few.

But yes, the purple is nice indeed
Sorry. Plain out of planes.

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mookyj
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Post by mookyj »

Dirk_Hendrik wrote:
mookyj wrote:Using plated thru-hole slots would increase reliability in a big way.
It may be me but I fail to see which slot's you're referring to.

The whole board shows the job from someone who learned to use the tool but has limited electronics knowledge.
slots instead of the oversized holes for the pots

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Post by modman »

Dirk_Hendrik wrote:Its' almost 2020 gents. Not 1985. The idea that "it looks nice" must prevail over optimization of the design is just plain odd.
I don't think it is "plain odd" when everything (pedals too, but let's not start about guitars!) are sold on instagram or facebook. There is even some fetishism about gut shot with the facebook pedal builders...

we are so old:
2004: start of facebook
2005: start of youtube
2007: start of freestompboxes :lol:
2010: start of instagram
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Agent86
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Post by Agent86 »

Dirk_Hendrik wrote: The whole board shows the job from someone who learned to use the tool but has limited electronics knowledge.
auto-router

Ice-9
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Post by Ice-9 »

Dirk_Hendrik wrote:... Define wrong. That's the difficult one. If the device works, can one conclude the design is good?

So, in general, the aim for a decent PCB design is to place all parts and connections in the most optimal way. After taking that into account this aim is immediately challenged by all other constraints that interfere. Jack positions, pot positions, non-optimal pin layout of parts... name em. That's where the challenge starts and the fun for the layouter begins. However it also means that the layouter is free to rearrange all other parts for the most optimal placement. What does not fit in such an arrangement, which is completely evident in this board, is that the layouter considers it more important to place all parts in an even spacing or ensures the rotation of all polarized parts it the same. The time pick and place machines placed in grid are far behind us and the polarization thing comes from the time boards were manually populated. Its' almost 2020 gents. Not 1985. The idea that "it looks nice" must prevail over optimization of the design is just plain odd. It's engineering, not free art.

Similar, when done (all is connected n an optimal way) spend some time doing design optimization. As an example look at R13 and wonder how the layout is simplified around that part if it were rotated 180 degrees. Just as well the copper polygons are full of open areas which could have been filled by moving traces a little bit or adding some stitching vias. Five minutes of work for better shielding and less chemical waste. To name a few.

But yes, the purple is nice indeed
Lets define right rather than wrong and more specifically attention to detail when designing anything, you should use the correct part that the thing was designed around or design the pcb for the part you want to use. In this case while it doesn't stop the thing from working the potentiometers used are long legged parts pushed through oversized hole with poor soldering /pad design, they didn't even trim the leg length off. A good solder joint isn't about filling a hole full of solder for an incorrect component. This is also a thing seen often with many big name pedals when using 3PDT footswitches with 3mm round solder holes to fill.

R13 like you mention could be so easily routed better like most of the components, it looks quite auto routed rather than having just a quick human eye over the routing which would also explain the pot pads being oversized from a predefined pattern. Routing is nasty.
It's fairly straight forward, if you want to start it , press start. You can work out the rest of the controls for yourself !

No silicon heaven ? preposterous ! Where would all the calculators go ?

athdimitris
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Post by athdimitris »

if someone could trace this and draw a layout that would be just swell.

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modman
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Post by modman »

athdimitris wrote:
22 Jan 2020, 16:37
if someone could trace this and draw a layout that would be just swell.
The basis is basically a Rebote/PT80 delay, one of the oldest DIY echo circuits around
There is a schematic of the DBA Echo Dream 2
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