Way Huge - Red Llama (whole story)

Post by **modman** » 04 Aug 2007, 18:48

: Way Huge Red Llama schematic by Steve Cerruti

I'm just reading some more ampage and had always been wondering why this boutique box was always ok at Aron's. And I really think this pic is worth embedding for once:

: Craig Anderton - Tube Sound Fuzz, schematic by Justin Philprott; tsf.gif (6.06 KiB) Viewed 1036 times

Of course, if it's directly out of Craig Anderton's book, it's a bit hard to protect it. Just took one post by Bob Sweet, whom I don't really know, but I'll look at the link:

Message from discussion red llama vs. fulldrive2 Bob Sweet [b]Sep 9 1999,[/b] 9:00 am wrote:

The Red Llama is a clone of Craig Andertons Tube sound fuzz. Jorge did
change one of the elec.caps to a 200uf (can't remember the original
value) but it wouldn't be hard to figure out. So if you like that sound
just pick up the Anderton book and you can Llama your brains out without
worry of the company going out of business<G>
--
Bob Sweet
Sweet Sound Electronics, Inc.
sweetsound.com

I found that through this link. Aron repeatedly said himself reverse engineering is essential for studying.

aron wrote: Hah! I guessed right!
Here's the link/post on deja.com:
~~x56.deja.com/getdoc.xp?AN=522849003&CONTEXT=965867877.902692864&hitnum=0~~

Aron

I bet there's more for Anderton among the Way Huge pedals. Read somewhere that Mr Huge said ok to reverse engineering but no gut shots. That's a really strange standpoint I think..

Mayniac · Post by **Mayniac** » 04 Aug 2007, 21:30

Red Llama schematic by Steve Cerruti
I'm just reading some more ampage and had always been wondering why this boutique box was always ok at Aron's.

I think this is because Way Huge pedals are, and already were at the time, out of production.

markm · Post by **markm** » 04 Aug 2007, 22:32

Mayniac wrote:
modman wrote:Red Llama schematic by Steve Cerruti
I'm just reading some more ampage and had always been wondering why this boutique box was always ok at Aron's.
I think this is because Way Huge pedals are, and already were at the time, out of production.

I'm not really sure but, I thought Way Huge ceased production in 2001?
That link from Ampage is from '99.
I could be wrong though.

Mayniac · Post by **Mayniac** » 04 Aug 2007, 22:44

According to archive.org, Way Huge Electronics was for sale as from between March and October 1999. Somewhere between November 1999 and May 2000 they went out of business.

Post by **modman** » 05 Aug 2007, 10:27

Also found a very concise Red LLama perfboard layout by Remmelt on diy.

: remmelt.com/electro/media/redllama_layout_400.jpg; redllama_layout_400.jpg (23.08 KiB) Viewed 3023 times

---
So Bob's message is exactly when he went out of business?
Or was the Red Llama perhaps already discontinued earlier? If it's true that the inital price of $150 rose to $350 eventually, I don't understand what caused him to stop the whole venture. A job offer from Line6? I heard he moved on to Dunlop after that.

Post by **modman** » 19 Nov 2007, 11:13

Cleaning up some stuff, here's MarkM's transfer and layout files for the RED LLAMA / Craig Anderton's Tube Sound Fuzz:

: RedLlamaTRANSFER.gif (5.71 KiB) Viewed 1029 times

markm wrote:This circuit seems to rollercoaster in popularity.
Classic circuit based on the Tube Sound Fuzz.

https://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b72/ ... YOUT-1.png
https://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b72/ ... ANSFER.gif

The Rotagilla · Post by **The Rotagilla** » 19 Nov 2007, 12:29

There's only a few parts differences between the Tube Sound Fuzz and the Red Llama. The thing that's always cracked me up is that everyone seems to be willing to slam cloners and tweakers but it's been going on a lot longer that the current crop. Most if not all of the Way Huge pedals were refined clones. Mr. Tripps has a great ear for tone but I've often wondered why he (and one or two others) seem to be praised and excluded from the dogpile.

analogguru · Post by **analogguru** » 19 Nov 2007, 13:23

The Rotagilla wrote:The thing that's always cracked me up is that everyone seems to be willing to slam cloners and tweakers but it's been going on a lot longer that the current crop.

Mastro Fuzztone has been cloned (Sola TB Mk I, Zonk Machine....), Mosrite Fuzzrite has been cloned (Orpheum et al), Vox Tonebender was more early than the praised Fuzz Face (= clone), Big Muff Pi has been cloned by Colorsound....

Most if not all of the Way Huge pedals were refined clones. Mr. Tripps has a great ear for tone but I've often wondered why he (and one or two others) seem to be praised and excluded from the dogpile.

All above - including Way Huge - have one thing in common:
They are out of business (at the moment ?)...
Maybe that is the reason ?

But one thing to think about:
Those guys who today claim for "their" "Intellectual Property" as loudest, are those guys who in reality are the biggest ghouls....
Noone of them invented or developed anything.... from an engineering viewpoint they are all only tinkerers - whose abilties are reached by tweaking the values of an existing circuit.

analogguru

bajaman · Post by **bajaman** » 21 Nov 2007, 10:59

Let's try and get back to the topic at hand

Well said Rotagilla - bring back the llamas

ps: Modman - we need a new catfight thread - perhaps with the title " for those who want to discuss politics" OR "how to start the next World War"

Feel free to move this to the rubbish bin section
bajaman

Post by **modman** » 22 Nov 2007, 00:30

Above interesting derailment thickens the CATFIGHT THREAD to become 30+ pages. Will rant there, on perhaps will try to restrain myself.

What did I do, I only wanted to add MarkM's layout, and look what happened. Was hoping to find some more info on the Tube Sound Fuzz/Red Llama comparison value wise...

Rota?

The Rotagilla · Post by **The Rotagilla** » 22 Nov 2007, 03:01

modman wrote:Was hoping to find some more info on the Tube Sound Fuzz/Red Llama comparison value wise...

Rota?

I've been messing with the two layouts. Hang tight and I'll report back. For a nice and quick change, swap R2/100k on MarkM's layout for a 10M as called for in the original TSF schematic. The original had a Lead/Rhythm switch that swapped between the 100k and the 10M. Way Huge dropped the 10M. The upside to the switch...huge, fat, greasy, sustaining fuzz. The downside...you can't adjust the gain, it's fixed.

tonator · Post by **tonator** » 23 Nov 2007, 11:46

It's not that this design hasn't been improved on... I strongly recommend Runoffgroove.com's 3-legged-dog.

Wuff!

Beedoola · Post by **Beedoola** » 01 Apr 2008, 10:20

Can someone tell me what value C5 is and where I can find C2? - couldn't find the value at Small Bear and the pots are 1M and 10k linear correct?

: http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php/v/Bean-Box-Shop/beanLayouts/redllama.gif.html; redllama.gif (36.59 KiB) Viewed 1021 times

The Rotagilla · Post by **The Rotagilla** » 01 Apr 2008, 11:20

C5 is listed as a 100pF. C4 is a 330uF in the Red Llama build but it have been written that anything between 100uF and 330uF will work fine. Pots are an A10K for volume and a B1M for gain.

RLBJR65 · Post by **RLBJR65** » 01 Apr 2008, 11:27

C5 is 100 Pico Farad (pF) = .1 Nano Farad (nF) or .0001 Micro Farad (uF or mF)
C2 - 51pF = .051nF = .000051uF or mF
Mouser - http://www.mouser.com/ Futurlec - http://www.futurlec.com/Components.shtml
among many other places will have them.

The Rotagilla · Post by **The Rotagilla** » 01 Apr 2008, 12:09

Sorry, I thought Beedola was looking at C4, not C2.

Too early in the morning for me.

51pF is Mouser PN 140-50S2-510J-RC

mfgobbi · Post by **mfgobbi** » 01 Apr 2008, 21:43

Maybe old but here we go:

http://gaussmarkov.net/wordpress/circuits/red-llama/

Partlist for the Red Llama Clone on gaussmarkov.net

Part Value Library

C1 .068uF gm-caps-film-box
C2 51pF gm-caps-ceramic
C3 100pF gm-caps-ceramic
C4 .033uF gm-caps-film-box
C5 10uF tantalum gm-caps-tant
C6 330uF gm-caps-electro-pol
D1 1N4004 gm-diodes
IC1 CD4049UBE gm-ics
R1 100K gm-resistors
R2 100K gm-resistors
R3 1M gm-resistors
R4 1K gm-resistors
R5 1M gm-resistors
GAIN 1M gm-pots
VOLUME 10K gm-pots

Beedoola · Post by **Beedoola** » 02 Apr 2008, 06:45

anyone build the llama? is it worth it?

soulsonic · Post by **soulsonic** » 02 Apr 2008, 09:41

Beedoola wrote:anyone build the llama? is it worth it?

The first pedal I ever built was the Tube Sound Fuzz the Llama is copied from. It sounded good enough to give me the confidence to continue with the hobby.

bajaman · Post by **bajaman** » 02 Apr 2008, 10:41

too muddy for my tastes

bajaman

Way Huge - Red Llama (whole story) [traced]