Analogman - King of Tone  [traced]

General documentation, gut shot, schematic links, ongoing circuit tracing, deep thoughts ... all about boutique stompboxes.
User avatar
Dirk_Hendrik
Old Solderhand
Information
Posts: 4189
Joined: 03 Jul 2007, 08:44
Location: Old Amsterdam
Has thanked: 232 times
Been thanked: 886 times
Contact:

Post by Dirk_Hendrik »

Pfoooh :thumbsup
Sorry. Plain out of planes.

http://www.dirk-hendrik.com

User avatar
Seiche
Old Solderhand
Information
Posts: 2526
Joined: 01 Nov 2010, 00:16
Location: Germany
Has thanked: 231 times
Been thanked: 189 times

Post by Seiche »

Dirk,

what do you reckon is up with this 505 cap?

That should be 5uF, but that doesnt make sense?

User avatar
Motter
Solder Soldier
Information
Posts: 163
Joined: 24 Aug 2012, 18:02
Location: New Orleans
Has thanked: 32 times
Been thanked: 121 times

Post by Motter »

Maybe it's a 50 pf and the second 5 is a tolerance marking? Or maybe an S? Can you see any other markings on it?

User avatar
Seiche
Old Solderhand
Information
Posts: 2526
Joined: 01 Nov 2010, 00:16
Location: Germany
Has thanked: 231 times
Been thanked: 189 times

Post by Seiche »

That's what I'm assuming, but it's not consistent with the other one (101).
Screenshot_20180710-220350.png
Screenshot_20180710-220405.png

User avatar
plush
Cap Cooler
Information
Posts: 639
Joined: 08 Dec 2015, 09:29
Location: Moscow, Evil Russia
Has thanked: 36 times
Been thanked: 169 times

Post by plush »

Wow, same happened to my fallout character when i maxed his social marketing bullshit instead of soldering.

User avatar
Seiche
Old Solderhand
Information
Posts: 2526
Joined: 01 Nov 2010, 00:16
Location: Germany
Has thanked: 231 times
Been thanked: 189 times

Post by Seiche »

So I traced the circuit and it's pretty much what we already know. The only differences are thus:

- the input cap is 22n on both sides
- instead of 1s1588, this uses 1n914
- output cap of the high-gain red side has an "H" painted on it, but is the same value 105 as on the yellow side. The IC also has an H painted on and the chip markings are sanded off.
- the feedback loop cap on the yellow side ist a weird value. 505? The red side has the usual 101=100pF.
- On the high-gain red side the gain resistor is 100k, on the yellow side it is 1k.

I think the last part is news, as this resistor was always assumed to be 10k and the gain pot changed for high-gain on DIY projects.
Attachments
Kot_2018_schematic.png
Last edited by Seiche on 25 May 2020, 11:57, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
morgan wong
Information
Posts: 3
Joined: 19 Jan 2019, 05:48
Has thanked: 1 time

Post by morgan wong »

Seiche wrote:So I traced the circuit and it's pretty much what we already know. The only differences are thus:

- On the high-gain red side the gain resistor is 100k, on the yellow side it is 1k.

I think the last part is news, as this resistor was always assumed to be 10k and the gain pot changed for high-gain on DIY projects.
Are you sure? From the picture, they are all 10K, and there is no difference.

User avatar
Seiche
Old Solderhand
Information
Posts: 2526
Joined: 01 Nov 2010, 00:16
Location: Germany
Has thanked: 231 times
Been thanked: 189 times

Post by Seiche »

pretty sure, yes, which pictures are you referring to and which resistors?

I think they were brown-black-red (1k) and brown-black-yellow (100k), but it's not entirely clear on my pictures and I already flipped the pedal.

User avatar
jalmonsalmon
Solder Soldier
Information
Posts: 212
Joined: 14 Sep 2012, 22:49
Has thanked: 97 times
Been thanked: 30 times

Post by jalmonsalmon »

Those magical diodes can be found again and my big question is do they really make a difference in this thing? I made a clone of this and still need to figure out the best settings with those dip switches LOL

User avatar
morgan wong
Information
Posts: 3
Joined: 19 Jan 2019, 05:48
Has thanked: 1 time

Post by morgan wong »

Seiche wrote:pretty sure, yes, which pictures are you referring to and which resistors?

I think they were brown-black-red (1k) and brown-black-yellow (100k), but it's not entirely clear on my pictures and I already flipped the pedal.
Image

The picture is not clear, the color ring reading looks more like brown - black - orange (10k)

User avatar
Intripped
Cap Cooler
Information
Posts: 670
Joined: 25 Aug 2009, 01:03
Location: Italy
Has thanked: 985 times
Been thanked: 305 times

Post by Intripped »

that resistor is 10k, but it is not the resistor that Seiche is talking about.
the correct one is behind the 1uF capacitor (square, marked with "H")

User avatar
Seiche
Old Solderhand
Information
Posts: 2526
Joined: 01 Nov 2010, 00:16
Location: Germany
Has thanked: 231 times
Been thanked: 189 times

Post by Seiche »

Intripped wrote:that resistor is 10k, but it is not the resistor that Seiche is talking about.
the correct one is behind the 1uF capacitor (square, marked with "H")
Correct. The 10k carbon comp is R6 in my schematic. Feedback resistors R5 are not in the direct audio path and thus not carbon comp (but rather carbon film). One of the resistors is behind the cap, which is why I can't find a clear picture of it (I took a few pictures at the time).
kot_v4_2018_fb_resistrs.png
These are the best pictures I have of them:
kot_v4_2018_fb_resistrs2.png
Last edited by Seiche on 21 Mar 2019, 18:39, edited 4 times in total.

User avatar
Seiche
Old Solderhand
Information
Posts: 2526
Joined: 01 Nov 2010, 00:16
Location: Germany
Has thanked: 231 times
Been thanked: 189 times

Post by Seiche »

jalmonsalmon wrote:Those magical diodes can be found again and my big question is do they really make a difference in this thing?
which diodes are you referring to? The Ma856s? Because the 1s1588 were changed to 1n914s by Analogman himself.

I built my clone with Ma858s and 1s1588 but socketed them, but haven't gotten around to actually A/Bing them myself with common replacements.

User avatar
jalmonsalmon
Solder Soldier
Information
Posts: 212
Joined: 14 Sep 2012, 22:49
Has thanked: 97 times
Been thanked: 30 times

Post by jalmonsalmon »

Seiche wrote: which diodes are you referring to? The Ma856s? Because the 1s1588 were changed to 1n914s by Analogman himself.

I built my clone with Ma858s and 1s1588 but socketed them, but haven't gotten around to actually A/Bing them myself with common replacements.
From pedalhackers site, and I cannot say if those are real MA856s or MA858s
They are pricey too!
Image

User avatar
Seiche
Old Solderhand
Information
Posts: 2526
Joined: 01 Nov 2010, 00:16
Location: Germany
Has thanked: 231 times
Been thanked: 189 times

Post by Seiche »

oh did you buy all of them? :lol:

User avatar
Cigla tel.
Information
Posts: 18
Joined: 06 Apr 2016, 13:34
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 4 times

Post by Cigla tel. »

I did not have the chance to try the original. but if the schematic is correct, then the clone sound and behaviour should be equal to the original, RIGHT???
Judging by that, i did the clone and the pedal sound great. However, there is not one PRO musician who tried it and remained visibly disappointed in the nature of the sound of this device. :roll:
I made it very well .. i even inserted the original diodes MA856 & 1S1588:
Image
.., bla bla.. and nothing spectacular.

Perhaps the only advantage is that it does not color the sound ... but .. overdrive/distortion with such a neutral tone... :?

I don't understand the hype at all about this device!

BTW. i made only wooden enclosures:

Image Image

User avatar
Seiche
Old Solderhand
Information
Posts: 2526
Joined: 01 Nov 2010, 00:16
Location: Germany
Has thanked: 231 times
Been thanked: 189 times

Post by Seiche »

However, there is not one PRO musician who tried it and remained visibly disappointed in the nature of the sound of this device.
don't you mean "didn't remain visibly disappointed"? As in they were disappointed because they expected more?

I also wasn't that fond of it, especially the pairing of playing both sides at the same time. It felt difficult to get a good sound in my opinion. I would prefer a prince of tone kind of deal that only had one of the sides and use a boost in front of it. I could only use them alternating both channels, not at the same time.

User avatar
Cigla tel.
Information
Posts: 18
Joined: 06 Apr 2016, 13:34
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 4 times

Post by Cigla tel. »

Seiche wrote:
However, there is not one PRO musician who tried it and remained visibly disappointed in the nature of the sound of this device.
don't you mean "didn't remain visibly disappointed"? As in they were disappointed because they expected more?

I also wasn't that fond of it, especially the pairing of playing both sides at the same time. It felt difficult to get a good sound in my opinion. I would prefer a prince of tone kind of deal that only had one of the sides and use a boost in front of it. I could only use them alternating both channels, not at the same time.
My bad english, of course, they expected much more from this pedal. Fact is that we have better sounding devices which are 4x cheaper that this hyped pedal.

User avatar
Manfred
Tube Twister
Information
Posts: 1936
Joined: 04 Apr 2009, 23:42
Has thanked: 1668 times
Been thanked: 1344 times

Post by Manfred »

I traced the 1S1588 and the MA858 diodes pn-junction curves and searched for suitable curves.
The MA588 is a good replacement for the MA856 the curves are very similar.
I found that the 1N914 is a good replacement for the 1S1588.
The shape of the MA858 curve is similar to base-emitter and base-collector curve of BJTs the values are close each other.
I will continue to search for the suitable BJT.
1S1588 Comparation.jpg
MA858 Comparation.jpg

User avatar
Manfred
Tube Twister
Information
Posts: 1936
Joined: 04 Apr 2009, 23:42
Has thanked: 1668 times
Been thanked: 1344 times

Post by Manfred »

I have tried various transitors the MPSA18 base-emitter diode gave the best match with the MA858 Diode.
So can the MA856 replaced by the MPSA18 base-emitter diode.
MA858 MPSA18 Comparation.jpg

Post Reply