Shin-ei - FY-2

deadllama · Post by **deadllama** » 08 Feb 2012, 21:12

LucifersTrip wrote:You can easily mod a FF to sound similar...it will sound nothing like a FF.

This is just a Fuzz Face without the voltage divider on the output, right?

deadllama · Post by **deadllama** » 08 Feb 2012, 21:15

deadllama wrote:This is just a Fuzz Face without the voltage divider on the output, right?

Sorry to double post, but I couldn't edit that once I realized I hadn't said what I meant. The "Fuzz Face FY-2 Mod" is really just a removal of the 8.2k resistor on the collector of Q2, right?

LucifersTrip · Post by **LucifersTrip** » 09 Feb 2012, 02:27

deadllama wrote:
deadllama wrote:This is just a Fuzz Face without the voltage divider on the output, right?
Sorry to double post, but I couldn't edit that once I realized I hadn't said what I meant. The "Fuzz Face FY-2 Mod" is really just a removal of the 8.2k resistor on the collector of Q2, right?

....and move the .01 output cap right off the collector, and heavily reduce the gains of the transistors, and heavily reduce the size of the output cap, and add a cap across Q2 BC (which is pretty much necessary, not optional), and you don't need to shoot for 4.5v on Q2 C

here's my final version:

deadllama · Post by **deadllama** » 09 Feb 2012, 02:43

LucifersTrip wrote: ....and move the .01 output cap right off the collector, and heavily reduce the gains of the transistors, and heavily reduce the size of the output cap, and add a cap across Q2 BC (which is pretty much necessary, not optional), and you don't need to shoot for 4.5v on Q2 C

...well, there is that. Good work with this. One of these days this weekend or next I'm going to throw it on a breadboard with some Russian MP42B's. I'll try to record some clips or something.

LucifersTrip · Post by **LucifersTrip** » 09 Feb 2012, 20:37

deadllama wrote:
LucifersTrip wrote: ....and move the .01 output cap right off the collector, and heavily reduce the gains of the transistors, and heavily reduce the size of the output cap, and add a cap across Q2 BC (which is pretty much necessary, not optional), and you don't need to shoot for 4.5v on Q2 C

...well, there is that. Good work with this. One of these days this weekend or next I'm going to throw it on a breadboard with some Russian MP42B's. I'll try to record some clips or something.

It's really great for the loads of DIY-ers who tried to build a normal FF but couldn't find ge transistors that fit the bill. As you noted, the actual components are so close, you don't have to change much if your normal FF build isn't satisfactory. It's really one of the easiest pedals to get a good, loud fuzz from all the ge fuzzes I've built.

good luck

LucifersTrip · Post by **LucifersTrip** » 09 Feb 2012, 20:42

just realized I made a small mistake in my first reply to deadllama.
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=6681&start=20#p180928

I wrote "heavily reduce the size of the output cap". I meant "heavily reduce the size of the volume pot"

monkeyxx · Post by **monkeyxx** » 27 Apr 2012, 20:19

a tip I just discovered...this circuit is very responsive to input buffers. A Cornish buffer, for example, really warms it up a lot and somehow lets some cleans blend through (with guitar volume on full), and with the mid scoop lift pot, really gets some similar sounds to the germanium Fuzzrite. no buffer it's got that Jesus Mary Chain harsh biting sound (which is really cool) but with certain buffers it gets "chewier" or something, fatter

this circuit must be heard on bass, in my opinion! Radiohead's National Anthem (live) would be a good example tone

LucifersTrip · Post by **LucifersTrip** » 31 Oct 2012, 07:25

I decided to revisit this thing since it's one of the most underrated, loudest and nastiest ge fuzzes...and it's insanely rare. Most just know of the silicon version with the mid-scoop, which ironically outputs too low volume.

Last time I took the easy way out, set the "fuzz" at max and put an external bias pot on Q2. Since I'm fortunate enough to have a large selection of transistors to select from, I took the hard road....Instead of the bias pot, I took the time to chose the "right" transistors (NPN this time) that gave the hottest, best fuzz with nothing changed (except for the pots)...so, this isn't a typical build report where I tweak values.

I worked in reverse and it worked like a charm as it has many times before. Procedure: go thru a bunch of transistors to get a really good fuzz (good starting point: use hfe's 50 - 100). Then, sub pot for Q2 collector resistor. Adjust until fuzz is the hottest. Measure pot. If 22K, stop. If not, try next transistor and repeat. Once Q2 is chosen, do the same for Q1.

It's harder and takes a bit longer and supposes you have a good selection to choose from but I've had amazing success...and this is not an exception.

Not surprisingly, Q1 turned out to be low leak, but a bit lower gain that expected...and Q2 turned out to have much higher leakage than expected.

Peak Atlas measured:
Q1: 2N388 (hfe 55, leak .04mA)
Q2: 9007558 1326 (153, leak .5mA+)

I ran into the exact 2 problems I did with my last build of this.

1) Volume is insanely loud (which I can deal with), but the bass heavily increases along with volume....and gets boomy and a bit muddy when 50-60% and higher. The simple solution is to decrease the size of the volume pot. You can get away with 20K if you want to go for the Vox Tonebender treble punch...but, I suggest somewhere in the 30-40K range. I settled midway at 35K with a 120K resistor across the 50K pot. Note: there's a big difference between 20K, 25K, 30K, 35K, etc, so choose wisely....

2) Fuzz control...it's not a typical fuzz control. With the pot at 1K, it's a loud, nasty fuzz with excellent sustain. As you turn towards 50K, it slowly gets buzzier, a bit thinner and more saturated...and moves towards gating. For me, at 26K it's max fuzz with just a hint of gate starting to appear (used 32K on a previous build). Turn past ~30 - 35K, it'll be quiet (< 2V on collector)...no hum, buzz or anything...So 55K resistor across 50K pot.

...since this can get pretty damn loud & nasty with the vol turned up, a small cap across BC of Q1 knocks out a little harshness without disturbing the tone. Make it larger or put it on Q2 if you want to tame it more.

Here's the final version with details:

LucifersTrip · Post by **LucifersTrip** » 01 Nov 2012, 01:18

btw, if anyone can find a pic of a real one, that'd be cool. Here's the original schematic

t_mbaker · Post by **t_mbaker** » 08 Nov 2012, 09:18

Very cool.

You don't happen to have a pair of appropriate transistors you'd be willing to sell, do you?

LucifersTrip · Post by **LucifersTrip** » 08 Nov 2012, 13:06

t_mbaker wrote:Very cool.

You don't happen to have a pair of appropriate transistors you'd be willing to sell, do you?

I have a bunch of ge's in my sale list:
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=13814&start=20#p207301

And yes, I could pick a couple that would match those gains and leakages for just a few bucks each...but honestly, like most ge fuzzes, it's best to go thru a bunch until you get what you want. Unfortunately, I already took it off the breadboard and soldered it, so I can't experiment any more...

This will sound cool with a large variety of hfe's, but better of Q2 is as high or higher than Q1...like a Fuzz Face.

Masuto · Post by **Masuto** » 17 Apr 2014, 06:14

For those looking for the original, si transistors, heres is my tip: they can be found in old japanese tape decks.
I have read some forums where they say the original ones (C536) are buzzier than the common modern variants..
I am going to build one myself, just a couple of questions: were the original caps all greenies or what? Please if anyone has details on the original's specs. Do the original ones suffer from volume loss too?

LucifersTrip · Post by **LucifersTrip** » 17 Apr 2014, 09:41

Masuto wrote:For those looking for the original, si transistors, heres is my tip: they can be found in old japanese tape decks.
I have read some forums where they say the original ones (C536) are buzzier than the common modern variants..

i love vintage stuff, but it's probably another case of mojo deafness...who knows...it's more likely the hfe's are different in modern ones or the caps drifted...

I am going to build one myself, just a couple of questions: were the original caps all greenies or what? Please if anyone has details on the original's specs.

the si is common, so you can always check eBay for some guts
http://tinyurl.com/pps92qf

Do the original ones suffer from volume loss too?

yes, the si ones do...not the ge

Masuto · Post by **Masuto** » 21 Apr 2014, 17:30

Finished my fy2 build.
Tried my 536 Tried 2N2222s, 2N5088s, 2N5089s.
Can i say it?
It sounds the best with my 2N5088 on. Great violin like qualities, i played a couple of JAMC faves and the sound is there: spastic cries await to be vocalised yet again on top of this ragged steel train.
ALTHOUGH it must be said that the differences between these transistors are close to nil.
On mine no volume loss at all... it is loud.

Masuto · Post by **Masuto** » 23 Apr 2014, 06:20

I am building another one with C536s on. Any desirable hfe for q1 and q2?
My bunch reads from 190 to 305...with 216, 220, 280 in between.
What were the hfes of the original ones?

Masuto · Post by **Masuto** » 23 Apr 2014, 08:21

I am building another one with C536s on. Any desirable hfe for q1 and q2?
My bunch reads from 190 to 305...with 216, 220, 280 in between.
What were the hfes of the original ones?

Masuto · Post by **Masuto** » 24 Apr 2014, 10:52

Fwiw, as i see this thread is very quiet, this is my second build, using C536 (q1 hfe: 283, q2: 303):

And my first build, using 2N5088 (q1& q2 hfe of 300+):

If you navigate thru the clips you will also hear the same build using 2N5089, 2N2222 (as stated on the previous post, not much difference imho)

Sonofthebeach · Post by **Sonofthebeach** » 02 Aug 2014, 12:32

I built a FY2 Clone yesterday and I am not happy with the result soundwise. On General Guitar Gadgets there is a instruction sheet for a FY2 clone that suggests
6.6 Volt on the collector of Q1. On my build there is only 3.2 volt. Regarding there is only a 22k resistor in the circuit between q1 and 9volt I doubt that I made a mistake.

Any ideas for that issue?

Hope you understand what I am trying to say...I´m german and technical english is new to me.

Thanks

LucifersTrip · Post by **LucifersTrip** » 03 Aug 2014, 08:06

Sonofthebeach wrote:I built a FY2 Clone yesterday and I am not happy with the result soundwise. On General Guitar Gadgets there is a instruction sheet for a FY2 clone that suggests
6.6 Volt on the collector of Q1. On my build there is only 3.2 volt. Regarding there is only a 22k resistor in the circuit between q1 and 9volt I doubt that I made a mistake.

Any ideas for that issue?

Hope you understand what I am trying to say...I´m german and technical english is new to me.

Thanks

your english is good...I checked the voltages on one I built a long time ago and they are actually close to yours, around 3V on Q1C.
anyway, did you try to adjust the 22K to see if you like it better somewhere else?

LucifersTrip · Post by **LucifersTrip** » 03 Aug 2014, 08:12

I found a thread where someone posted voltages from an original...I had Q1C 3V, Q2C 1.2V.
==================

"I have an original. With a fresh battery that gives a V+ of 9.78VDC, I measured the following:

Q1: E - 0v, B - .59v, C - 3.40v

Q2: E - 0v, B - .55v, C - .9v"