Bare Bone Klone (no charge pump)

Dr Tony Balls · Post by **Dr Tony Balls** » 04 Jan 2012, 14:37

BakedAlaskan wrote:does anyone happen to have a wiring diagram for the vero layout seen above?

Sorry....i just realized it probably only makes sense to me. I'll try to edit it soon.

Seiche · Post by **Seiche** » 04 Jan 2012, 22:07

BakedAlaskan wrote:I can't edit the above post but had another question about the resistors used. Is it ok to use 5% 1/4watts for everything or do I need to use 1%'ers for R5,R7,R8,R10,R18(assuming these are in place of the 1% used on the charge pump equipped vero diagram)

you can use whatever. 5% just means when you have many resistors some of them might deviate up to 5% from the declared value. Many might be well within 1% though. If you measure them and use the ones that are closest to the original value of the circuit you should be fine. Hell, even if you use the ones that are off, they shouldn't make too much of a difference.

Dr Tony Balls wrote:
BakedAlaskan wrote:does anyone happen to have a wiring diagram for the vero layout seen above?
Sorry....i just realized it probably only makes sense to me. I'll try to edit it soon.

wiring should be the same as on the original klon. pretty straighforward.

drewl · Post by **drewl** » 10 Jan 2012, 13:14

earthtonesaudio wrote:
drewl wrote:I'm experimenting with another one of these I built.
I don't have the charge pump in it, so I was using a dual power supply to give me the pos and neg voltages and I'm not seeing any difference if the negative supply is there or not.
it's supposed to have more output with the dual rails?
Hmmm....maybe it would behave differently with a guitar, I'm just running a signal generator into it right now.
This thread is about a modified Klon circuit that only uses a single, positive supply...?

yes, and I was wondering if anyone knew differences between the two, but there isn't much activity.

IG88 · Post by **IG88** » 11 Jan 2012, 10:59

Dr Tony Balls wrote:for anyone's use, here's another vero (verified) of this:

where do you guys buy your 410K's at? i've had a real tough time finding anything in a 1/4w 1% or 5% package

Seiche · Post by **Seiche** » 11 Jan 2012, 11:41

IG88 wrote:where do you guys buy your 410K's at? i've had a real tough time finding anything in a 1/4w 1% or 5% package

nowhere, I would combine resistors or use the closest value.

k1rkyd · Post by **k1rkyd** » 17 Jan 2012, 22:11

BakedAlaskan wrote:does anyone happen to have a wiring diagram for the vero layout seen above?

Sorry....i just realized it probably only makes sense to me. I'll try to edit it soon.

Really sorry to bother you guys. i can't seem to see how this is wired with the labels you have given?? Please can someone help?

earthtonesaudio · Post by **earthtonesaudio** » 18 Jan 2012, 01:46

Ga is one half of the dual-ganged Gain pot, Gb is the other half
Output is the output pot
Treble is the treble pot

1, 2, 3 on the above correspond to the numbers of the terminals of the pot. With the shaft pointing toward you and the lugs pointing down, this is usually 1, 2, 3 from left to right.

Bypass is the clean buffered signal.

Seiche · Post by **Seiche** » 18 Jan 2012, 07:46

earthtonesaudio wrote:Ga is one half of the dual-ganged Gain pot, Gb is the other half
Output is the output pot
Treble is the treble pot

1, 2, 3 on the above correspond to the numbers of the terminals of the pot. With the shaft pointing toward you and the lugs pointing down, this is usually 1, 2, 3 from left to right.

Bypass is the clean buffered signal.

so output pot = volume pot. and "out" is where the signal goes to the output jack from the switch. the other half of the switch is for LED mojo etc.

amirite?

edit: looking at it again, is output2 connected from the vero to the switch and the pot?

earthtonesaudio · Post by **earthtonesaudio** » 18 Jan 2012, 10:49

Right and right again.

stonescorpion5 · Post by **stonescorpion5** » 12 Mar 2012, 15:11

I found that putting a 1.5k resistor after the next to last opamp allows the tonallity of the circuit to retain more of the original tonality of the klon circuit

BakedAlaskan · Post by **BakedAlaskan** » 16 Mar 2012, 06:33

hello guys. i'm trying to make a wiring diagram for dr.balls layout to help me before I go ahead and wire my own build. Its based off the original klon vero wiring layout but because of the differences I have a few questions as ive run into some problems. First off, what do I solder 'ground' to? And am I missing or have done anything in error so far with the diagram below? Specifically what to do with the vacant terminals on the stomp switch. thanks for any help

Dr Tony Balls · Post by **Dr Tony Balls** » 16 Mar 2012, 13:37

Ground should be wired to the box, and the (-) from the power supply. You've already got the (-) wired to the sleeve connection of the out jack, you just need to wire the ground from the board to the same place. You also need to wire the center pin on the right hand side of the switch to ground so that when the switch is in the right position you have a ground connection for your LED. Two other corrections:

1. you dont need a stereo input jack if you're not using a battery. You can save the $0.05 by using a mono.

2. no resistor is needed on the output jack like in the original vero layout. Ive moved that resistor onto the board.

In general I think it worked great and got just over unity volume. Its got about as much boost as a tube screamer.

*also, sorry i didnt respond to your PM! got busy and forgot about it.

BakedAlaskan · Post by **BakedAlaskan** » 17 Mar 2012, 03:23

thanks alot for the help, its much appreciated. ill go ahead and wire it up. do I still leave the terminal empty on the upper right hand corner of the stomp switch?

Dr Tony Balls · Post by **Dr Tony Balls** » 17 Mar 2012, 14:50

BakedAlaskan · Post by **BakedAlaskan** » 03 Apr 2012, 07:27

heres an updated wiring scheme with all the corrections but I'm worried that i something still may be amiss as I can't get a signal out of my build using this diagram. did I the screw the wiring up or did I cook something on the board? thanks again for the help, hope to get this thing up purring like it should to take out with the band this weekend.

IvIark · Post by **IvIark** » 13 Apr 2012, 22:35

Here's another vero layout, this one removes the buffer components and so is designed for use with a 3PDT stomp. Now verified and should be 1590B friendly if you're feeling brave with the dual pot:

Lucifer · Post by **Lucifer** » 09 May 2012, 17:46

Hi Guys,

I've built a few Klon clones - some with, and some without the charge pump.

At first I thought "Yeah, the simpler version is just as good" - but if you A-B the two types and listen carefully across a range of settings, the 'full version' (ie, with the charge pump) sounds warmer and more organic. I'm not sure why it sounds better, but it just does.

I got the same result with further clones of each type.

The 7660 charge pump gave the audible whining (posts elsewhere refer to this) - but a MAX1044 worked without the whine (from a 9.6v supply), with pins 1 and 8 connected to the '+9v rail'.

Cheers,

Lucifer

earthtonesaudio · Post by **earthtonesaudio** » 16 May 2012, 14:15

Well it would be difficult to define "warmer and more organic". Perception bias, component tolerances, different layouts and all that.

Maybe to clear up that mystery someone ought to build a version with a switchable voltage supply but a common audio path. Just to eliminate every variable except the power supplies.

Lucifer · Post by **Lucifer** » 16 May 2012, 18:25

I thought of doing just that when I was building the Double Klon (see separate posting for details) - but I decided against stuffing an extra switch into an already very crowded box.

However, like I said, I have A-B'd several of each type (both with and without the charge pump) - and there IS a difference, trust me.

But I'm not knocking the terrific work done by Earthtonesaudio - your simplified version is still an excellent pedal, and you should be proud of that.

Peace and organic warmth.

Lucifer

earthtonesaudio · Post by **earthtonesaudio** » 17 May 2012, 16:23

I can't take credit for the schematic for the single-rail Klon, that is Mictester's work. If that's the version you built the component changes could account for the sound. While the filtering time constants are basically the same (close enough to fall within part tolerances and unlikely to be audibly different), the gain is reduced. On the original, there is enough gain to clip the mixer op-amp. If clipping occurs in one but not the other, that is very likely to be audible.

My suggestion is to build a "stock" Klon except for the power supplies. It may indeed be the case that certain supply voltages result in a different sound. But then (here's the beauty of this technique), you can adjust the "lo-volt" version so that it sounds the same as the original (or whatever you want).

You could even go so far as to play prerecorded audio through the unit, run that through a spectrum analyzer, and PROVE that the two sound the same once the lo-volt version is calibrated.

* Notice I say "you" rather than "me" because while I enjoy this as a thought experiment, I simply don't care enough about overdrives to even breadboard a Klon in the first place!