Big 'Mojo Components Debunking' thread

[bajaman]

FACT - different capacitors and different resistors DO sound different, and it is what it sounds like that is most important in my humble opinion
take the shitty caps out of a wah wah pedal and put high quality orange drops in - you WILL hear a difference in the sound, unless you are deaf
A friend of mine recently replaced the cheap shitty mylar greencaps in his later model Les Paul - I gave him some Sprague Orange drops to try - he heard the difference and found the tone controls much more even in use.

I am not trying to justify MOJO - just stating FACTS - some components sound different to other components, even from the same manufacturer
If you still do not believe me try replacing the BS170 in your SHO pedal - you may have to try 3 or 4 from the same batch until you find one that SOUNDS right
Even different 12AX7 / ECC83 vacuum tubes SOUND different to mine and my customers ears.
I once put a set of Groove Tubes JJ type preamp tubes in a customers Fender Hot Rod Deville combo - he brought the amp back to - said he had to turn his treble way down to compensate for the extra brightness over his Russian Sovtek 12AX7s previously fitted. The solution was to put a set of Chinese 12AX7C Groove tubes in his amp - he LOVES the SOUND of his amp now, compared to with the JJ type - same tubes but different SOUND
Electronic theory and computer simulated modeling can take you so far, BUT at the end of the day your ears will have the final say
cheers
bajaman

[analogguru]

capacitors of different material, brand or size will have differences cause they also have e.g. a different inductance... this is measurable and defined by parameters like tan "delta". this may also influence at the Q and will be audible especially in tuned circuits like a wah. Also the difference between electrolytics, tantals, ceramics and film-capacitors are measurable and defined with paramaters like ESR.

For the rest:
When I will find some time I should write a comic-book:
"The different sound of resistors...."

"The difference....can you hear it ?" "Can you hear it now ?" "AND NOW ?"
"Now I can´t hear anything anymore...."

analogguru

[super velcroboy]

there will always be some people who will claim the existence of differences when there are none. And there will always be people who will claim there are no differences when in fact there are. Problem is some people are satisfied with their ears only but can't seem to measure these differences in any objective way, and they refuse to try to do so. I have problems with these people.

[teller]

there will always be some people who will claim the existence of differences when there are none. And there will always be people who will claim there are no differences when in fact there are. Problem is some people are satisfied with their ears only but can't seem to measure these differences in any objective way, and they refuse to try to do so. I have problems with these people.

Do your ears have the ability to measure? Mine do, otherwise I can't say, "that guitar sounds like shit", or "that guitar sounds great!"...As humans we are short on tools for our empirical studies, we should use what we have available and not have the builders of of possibly inferior tools and those who are limited or champion those tools to influence us to abandon something that works.

Maybe if my ears gave me very little reliable information I would vehemently feel the need to assert that the tools with screens for my eyes to see sound, should outweigh the the quick and proven results I get from my ears. The problem comes when people talk about what they hear, and what the sound they hear means, that is when people start playing the records backwards to find a hidden message, and the digital boys break out their scopes, spice modelers and number collectors to look at sound.

All the tools we have to observe sound are valuable, but you have to decide on one that trumps the others for final decisions. Do all experts agree that all measuring devices are perfect and never need improvement? What tool beats the human ear for creating mixdowns in a recording studio?

[madbean]

Interesting thread. People always get so heated about this subject, and I can understand why. Fundamentally, there seems to be a big difference of opinion in the quantitative and qualitative effects of using one component over another.

I tend to agree with Skreddy because he makes it clear that his is an artistic choice, not a technical one. And you can't really debate that, IMO, because he uses his ears and subjective experience in making that choice. Obviously, people agree with that choice since they buy his products.

[Skreddy]

The discussion on the influence of carbon comp resistors has been merged into the

Mojo component debunking thread.[/url]

Why didn't you merge post #2, then?

[Skreddy]

Thanks madbean and teller.

It's nice that these posts got moved into a thread that has been framed with the words "mojo" and "debunking."

Oh well; at least we're not being tortured and forced to abjure belief in carbon comp resistors. Merely a difference in degree, though; I'd say. Apparently all opinions and first-hand experience not conforming to the dogma of certain self-proclaimed authorities are sent to this ghetto and labelled "false." Oh the free thinkers who allow only the "correct" opinions around here. This is "freestompboxes.org"? No; it's the analogguru and modman sandbox. Thanks for the intelligent debate, gents. No, you're not on a power trip at all...

[Skreddy]

there will always be some people who will claim the existence of differences when there are none. And there will always be people who will claim there are no differences when in fact there are. Problem is some people are satisfied with their ears only but can't seem to measure these differences in any objective way, and they refuse to try to do so. I have problems with these people.

How is it somebody else's responsibility to justify what their ears hear to you?

[analogguru]

No; it's the analogguru and modman sandbox.

At least it is NOT a playground for bootweakers to promote their products and conducting sales-stories.

I think it´s getting time to get some "similar to TGP-regulations" here for bootweakers.

But this is not my matter anymore.

analogguru

[teller]

Thanks madbean and teller.

It's nice that these posts got moved into a thread that has been framed with the words "mojo" and "debunking."

Oh well; at least we're not being tortured and forced to abjure belief in carbon comp resistors. Merely a difference in degree, though; I'd say. Apparently all opinions and first-hand experience not conforming to the dogma of certain self-proclaimed authorities are sent to this ghetto and labelled "false." Oh the free thinkers who allow only the "correct" opinions around here. This is "freestompboxes.org"? No; it's the analogguru and modman sandbox. Thanks for the intelligent debate, gents. No, you're not on a power trip at all...

Hey your right Skreddy! Good call.

If the thread were called "substantiating the veracity or debunking the theory of mojo components", then this would not show agenda or censorship like so many other forums; although I come here because it is interesting to watch the train wrecks with builders involved and learn how to build their pedals without paying for the designs...that and because analoguru is incredible, he really should just be analoghero I say we change the name to analoghero.com!

Pity about what happened to Skreddy though, seems like a nice cat even though he is a builder.

Ya know, Skreddy, if you give up the building for profit, post all your schematics here and pray to analoguru and his son modman every night, you can be just like the rest of us here...part of the family...see freestomboxes.com loves you and forgives you for your profit driven sins...would you like some juice?

Just kidding around here...love ya analoguru and modman...your the absolute best!!

[teller]

No; it's the analogguru and modman sandbox.

At least it is NOT a playground for bootweakers to promote their products and conducting sales-stories.

I think it´s getting time to get some "similar to TGP-regulations" here for bootweakers.

But this is not my matter anymore.

analogguru

So true, now I am conflicted...I submit! bootweakers are the ones with agendas, I keep forgetting the sales angle! I aint the sharpest tool in the shed, so I nearly fell for it again.

Thanks analogguru!

[Marquis de Solder]

EDIT: This was funny, but absolutely inflammatory. And on a moment's consideration the last thing I really want to do is add fuel to the fire. Peace.

[soulsonic]

My Sarcasm Meter is getting very mixed signals. People should speak straight.

[Skreddy]

The bottom line is that independent thinking is only allowed here when it agrees with the opinions of the forum moderators. Other opinions end up in the box labeled "bunk." The moderators are free to disagree and have their say, but any defense to those disagreements ends up in the box, too. Personal accounts of building will automatically be discounted as sales pitches if the originator happens to build for a living.

How's that for shooting straight? No sarcasm here.

So I get it finally. The whole point of the entire exercise is an attempt at bringing everybody else down to the level of the moderators. All dissent is framed as BS and ridiculed, regardless of any and all justification or experience or logic or even consensus.

Okay, just one more jab of sarcasm: "Oooh; this is so much more free than those fascist hypocrites at DIYStompboxes!"

[madbean]

Well, I think you might be overstating it a bit, Skreddy, but of course you are entitled to your opinion. I don't see any suppression of opnion other than trying to keep bickering and condescension limited to the catfight thread. I think disagreement is good as long as people can remain respectful....and that can sometimes be a problem here. If you let it get under your skin too much, you might miss out on all the positive aspects of this place.

Sorry if I'm soapboxing...I just hate to see anyone to get too frustrated with this place and possibly leave

[super velcroboy]

there will always be some people who will claim the existence of differences when there are none. And there will always be people who will claim there are no differences when in fact there are. Problem is some people are satisfied with their ears only but can't seem to measure these differences in any objective way, and they refuse to try to do so. I have problems with these people.

How is it somebody else's responsibility to justify what their ears hear to you?

Don't be so defensive. I was making a general statement. We should strive to confirm things. Does God exist? Is there life on other planets? A lot of people either don't care or give into it completely. That's why mojo is entirely faith based. If you were a true scientist, you would question yourself all the time and everything you do and have others check your findings. If you can hear it, but the next 99 persons can't, then you were probably wrong.

[vanessa]

I don't agree with you Marc (Skreddy). I think you take things way to much to heart. It sounds like you really have heart in what you do, and it looks like your customers follow your lead.
The discussion is not a rip on your or any others product, just a individuals taste on things. AKA, mine was metal films etc..
You're saying that if it does not agree with the moderators then it's bunk? Not true, this forum is not a pack of jackals. It may seem like that at times but that is also the vibe you will find on any given forum at any time and you know this as truth.

[Skreddy]

there will always be some people who will claim the existence of differences when there are none. And there will always be people who will claim there are no differences when in fact there are. Problem is some people are satisfied with their ears only but can't seem to measure these differences in any objective way, and they refuse to try to do so. I have problems with these people.

How is it somebody else's responsibility to justify what their ears hear to you?

Don't be so defensive. I was making a general statement. We should strive to confirm things. Does God exist? Is there life on other planets? A lot of people either don't care or give into it completely. That's why mojo is entirely faith based. If you were a true scientist, you would question yourself all the time and everything you do and have others check your findings. If you can hear it, but the next 99 persons can't, then you were probably wrong.

What I'm railing against is the attitude that says an "expert" trumps anybody's ear, regardless of who or how many people state their personal experience to the contrary. Like Teller posted earlier, if my ass itches and a doctor says it doesn't, does his medical training trump my sensory information?

As for proving things and being scientific, I do constantly question myself and experiment first hand. If I didn't, I'd just go on faith whatever the experts tell me to believe.

[MoreCowbell]

there will always be some people who will claim the existence of differences when there are none. And there will always be people who will claim there are no differences when in fact there are. Problem is some people are satisfied with their ears only but can't seem to measure these differences in any objective way, and they refuse to try to do so. I have problems with these people.

How is it somebody else's responsibility to justify what their ears hear to you?

Don't be so defensive. I was making a general statement. We should strive to confirm things. Does God exist? Is there life on other planets? A lot of people either don't care or give into it completely. That's why mojo is entirely faith based. If you were a true scientist, you would question yourself all the time and everything you do and have others check your findings. If you can hear it, but the next 99 persons can't, then you were probably wrong.

What I'm railing against is the attitude that says an "expert" trumps anybody's ear, regardless of who or how many people state their personal experience to the contrary. Like Teller posted earlier, if my ass itches and a doctor says it doesn't, does his medical training trump my sensory information?

As for proving things and being scientific, I do constantly question myself and experiment first hand. If I didn't, I'd just go on faith whatever the experts tell me to believe.

I will say this....

I can buy metal film resistors ($4 per 200) and regular film caps (a couple cents each) for MUCH cheaper than carbon comps and tropical fish caps...I'm sure that Skreddy can as well...so obviously HE believes that it makes a difference. Whether or not "I" believe it matters not. He doesn't seem to make a big deal about "advertising mojo components", so it doesnt seem to be a marketing ploy, like many others...

Here's the thing...if I build a Muff, I'll build it how I choose...if it sounds good to ME, than regardless of the materials I used, then it is good. My opinion is what matters. Skreddy's customers' opinions matter to him...and since his pedals keep selling, I guess they like the job that Marc is doing. Unlike many other builders, he's never "hidden" the fact that most of his pedals are clones of existing pedals...so I'm not sure what people here think Marc is doing wrong. Building well built "clones" which are advertised as such ? Using "mojo components" but NOT advertising them ? What ?

In the immortal words of Joe Meek... "If it sounds good, it IS good".

Remember that most engineers would tell us that we're stupid for using tubes and germanium transistors because they don't "scope" or "test" as superior to solid state electronics and silicon transistors.....

[Marquis de Solder]

MoreCowbell, I love you. Thank you for that post.