The 'Sound' of Capacitors..
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- Posts: 9
- Joined: 21 Apr 2014, 21:39
- my favorite amplifier: Deluxe 40w
Hi guys,
It seems that Panasonic ECQV capacitors have been discontinued. That capacitor can be a good substitute for a quality equal to or greater than this?
I was using the ECW from the same manufacturer, to have a top quality, but due to such high voltage is sometimes difficult to mount on pcb.
I was thinking of using the DSF Cornell Dubilier. They also have a voltage of 50v. You think that is good option ?? I'm using capacitors to replace my guitar effects and give more clarity to the sound.
Ideal for me would find high quality capacitors sound, with a specific dielectric for its function and below 50v voltage. But time and meanwhile product on the web, I have clearly not the best option. Any review will be very grateful.
Thank you very much. Merry Christmas !!!
It seems that Panasonic ECQV capacitors have been discontinued. That capacitor can be a good substitute for a quality equal to or greater than this?
I was using the ECW from the same manufacturer, to have a top quality, but due to such high voltage is sometimes difficult to mount on pcb.
I was thinking of using the DSF Cornell Dubilier. They also have a voltage of 50v. You think that is good option ?? I'm using capacitors to replace my guitar effects and give more clarity to the sound.
Ideal for me would find high quality capacitors sound, with a specific dielectric for its function and below 50v voltage. But time and meanwhile product on the web, I have clearly not the best option. Any review will be very grateful.
Thank you very much. Merry Christmas !!!
- FiveseveN
- Cap Cooler
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Have you actually read this thread?davizerrat wrote:I'm using capacitors to replace my guitar effects and give more clarity to the sound.
Also, what is "clarity"?
Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge. (Charles Darwin)
actually this makes sense. if you replace some pedals with capacitors to gain clarity
you even get more space on the board.
I've found my signature finally...![Hug :hug:](./images/smilies/hug.gif)
![Applause :applause:](./images/smilies/applause.gif)
you even get more space on the board.
I've found my signature finally...
![Hug :hug:](./images/smilies/hug.gif)
I'm using capacitors to replace my guitar effects and give more clarity to the sound.
- DrNomis
- Old Solderhand
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I see that this topic is still going.....
Okay, let's analyse a Capacitor......
A capacitor is made up of three basic components, the connecting leads, the conductive plates, and the insulator(dielectric)that separates the two conductive plates, the dielectric can be made from various materials which do not conduct electricity, some dielectric materials are better at insulating than others, in Electrolytic capacitors the dielectric is in the form of an oxide which coats one of the conductive plates, in between the oxide and the other conductive plate is a porous material which contains an electrolyte (an Electrolytic cap behaves somewhat like a battery)....
In the early days of Electronics (Circa 1920's) capacitors used paper impregnated with wax as the dielectric separating the conductive plates, the problem was that these types of capacitors were prone to going leaky, i.e. developing a resistive path between the two conductive plates thus allowing a DC current to flow, later on better insulating materials were developed for use in capacitors.....
So, what has this got to do with the sound of capacitors?, well, I think if a capacitor has any chance of having any obvious effect on sound it would be a case of whether the cap is functioning properly and not leaky, by that, I honestly believe that providing that the capacitor is functioning correctly and not faulty, it should have a negligible effect on sound regardless of the type of capacitor used in the circuit, and provided that the circuit-voltages are well within the rated working voltage of the capacitor.....![thumbs up :thumbsup](./images/smilies/icon_thumright.gif)
![Hmmm... :hmmm:](./images/smilies/mw_hmmm.gif)
Okay, let's analyse a Capacitor......
![thumbs up :thumbsup](./images/smilies/icon_thumright.gif)
A capacitor is made up of three basic components, the connecting leads, the conductive plates, and the insulator(dielectric)that separates the two conductive plates, the dielectric can be made from various materials which do not conduct electricity, some dielectric materials are better at insulating than others, in Electrolytic capacitors the dielectric is in the form of an oxide which coats one of the conductive plates, in between the oxide and the other conductive plate is a porous material which contains an electrolyte (an Electrolytic cap behaves somewhat like a battery)....
![thumbs up :thumbsup](./images/smilies/icon_thumright.gif)
In the early days of Electronics (Circa 1920's) capacitors used paper impregnated with wax as the dielectric separating the conductive plates, the problem was that these types of capacitors were prone to going leaky, i.e. developing a resistive path between the two conductive plates thus allowing a DC current to flow, later on better insulating materials were developed for use in capacitors.....
![thumbs up :thumbsup](./images/smilies/icon_thumright.gif)
So, what has this got to do with the sound of capacitors?, well, I think if a capacitor has any chance of having any obvious effect on sound it would be a case of whether the cap is functioning properly and not leaky, by that, I honestly believe that providing that the capacitor is functioning correctly and not faulty, it should have a negligible effect on sound regardless of the type of capacitor used in the circuit, and provided that the circuit-voltages are well within the rated working voltage of the capacitor.....
![thumbs up :thumbsup](./images/smilies/icon_thumright.gif)
Genius is not all about 99% perspiration, and 1% inspiration - sometimes the solution is staring you right in the face.-Frequencycentral.
- Rocket Roll
- Solder Soldier
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I think that this line of thought (and analysis) would be very useful when thinking about "the sound" of capacitors:
- Intripped
- Cap Cooler
why there are differences at high voltages (in a tube amp) then?
it's widely accepted the fact that different capacitors (in different positions in the circuit) do have an impact on the suond of a tube amp.
1. is this statement accepted from the skepticals here or not?
2. if the answer is yes, please scientifically prove the fact, or link to such a demonstration
it's widely accepted the fact that different capacitors (in different positions in the circuit) do have an impact on the suond of a tube amp.
1. is this statement accepted from the skepticals here or not?
2. if the answer is yes, please scientifically prove the fact, or link to such a demonstration
- FiveseveN
- Cap Cooler
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Popularity and consensus are meaningless, only proof matters. Where is the proof?Intripped wrote:it's widely accepted
Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge. (Charles Darwin)
- FiveseveN
- Cap Cooler
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If I were to build tube amps, I wouldn't be concerned with particular dielectrics or packages or whatever corksniffers claim matters. The burden of proof is on them to support claims of identifiable and reproducible effects with proper evidence.
Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge. (Charles Darwin)
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- Posts: 9
- Joined: 21 Apr 2014, 21:39
- my favorite amplifier: Deluxe 40w
FiveseveN wrote:Have you actually read this thread?davizerrat wrote:I'm using capacitors to replace my guitar effects and give more clarity to the sound.
Also, what is "clarity"?
Hello, I'm talking translator. why I'm writing the words may be different..... If you believe this is not the place to ask about brands capacitors?
David
![Scratching Head :scratch:](./images/smilies/icon_scratch.gif)
![thumbs up :thumbsup](./images/smilies/icon_thumright.gif)
- astrobass
- Cap Cooler
The one thing I've noticed being glossed over here is the issue of manufacturing. Caps are manufactured and as such are susceptible to variation in the manufacturing process. It is not entirely unreasonable to suspect some manufacturers of using less accurate or less reliable facilities, equipment, or processes so as to produce at a lower cost. This occurs in every other industry.
This is particularly relevant for tube amps as high voltage caps are expensive to produce and expensive to purchase. So you tend to purchase caps whose max voltages are fairly close to the max voltages called for by the circuit. ESR increases as you approach the maximum operating voltage of the cap, correct? And if the manufacturer cut corners and you bought the most cost effective components available, it stands to reason that you may see increased ESR or leakage to the extent that it affects tone more frequently than if you bought from an alternate manufacturer or bought higher tolerance caps.
But that's a variation on DrNomis's observations re: not functioning correctly. It's probably a real factor in some cases. But it's got nothing to do with mojo and everything to do with the current state of manufacturing in Asia. And it provides no basis for concern related to stompboxes.
This is particularly relevant for tube amps as high voltage caps are expensive to produce and expensive to purchase. So you tend to purchase caps whose max voltages are fairly close to the max voltages called for by the circuit. ESR increases as you approach the maximum operating voltage of the cap, correct? And if the manufacturer cut corners and you bought the most cost effective components available, it stands to reason that you may see increased ESR or leakage to the extent that it affects tone more frequently than if you bought from an alternate manufacturer or bought higher tolerance caps.
But that's a variation on DrNomis's observations re: not functioning correctly. It's probably a real factor in some cases. But it's got nothing to do with mojo and everything to do with the current state of manufacturing in Asia. And it provides no basis for concern related to stompboxes.
- Dirk_Hendrik
- Old Solderhand
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I think you should read this thread better. Then you will find out yourself wether this is the right place to ask for brands. Hint: You couldn't be further from the thruthdavizerrat wrote: Hello, I'm talking translator. why I'm writing the words may be different..... If you believe this is not the place to ask about brands capacitors?
David![]()
![Wink ;-)](./images/smilies/icon_wink.gif)
- Rocket Roll
- Solder Soldier
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...or, for those who want to cut to the chase, the real world capacitor actually looks like this...Rocket Roll wrote:I think that this line of thought (and analysis) would be very useful when thinking about "the sound" of capacitors:
...and that's one of the sources for its "sound".
- Dirk_Hendrik
- Old Solderhand
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Thanks. I know and I could write a lenghty essay with that picture.Rocket Roll wrote: ...or, for those who want to cut to the chase, the real world capacitor actually looks like this...
...and that's one of the sources for its "sound".
But this is the internet where everything that is not understood is discarded as "unimportant". Most of those reading this thread do not have a clue, nor are they willing to learn, what that picture implies in an AC perspective.
And therefore that picture is no part in the argumentation that capacitors may have sonic influences.
![Neutral :|](./images/smilies/icon_neutral.gif)
- FiveseveN
- Cap Cooler
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Ok, let's see some real-world values then.
I'm willing to do some simulations, but I can't weed through countless cap datasheets just to be accused of cherry picking in the end anyway. Are these parasitic parameters even specified for most products?
I'm willing to do some simulations, but I can't weed through countless cap datasheets just to be accused of cherry picking in the end anyway. Are these parasitic parameters even specified for most products?
Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge. (Charles Darwin)