Sitori Sonics Brownies and Cream

soulsonic · Post by **soulsonic** » 27 Feb 2010, 23:16

Steven_M wrote: The BSIAB was designed by Ed Guidry.

Yes, and he's even posted in this thread!

Ed G. · Post by **Ed G.** » 28 Feb 2010, 02:45

Yeah, I "designed" the circuit, although I'm not really comfortable with that word.
The cascaded mu-amp thing was originally the mini-tubes by Jack Orman, and in the diy community there's been variations on that theme, I was inspired by Aron Nelson's Booster 2.5 and Doug Hammond's Sweet Thing. I thought those designs sounded great with a bridge humbucker, not as tight as I wanted on the neck pickup. So I did a lot of tweaking into what I thought guitar distortion should sound like.
There's pros and cons as to the whole jfet thing. The thing that attracted me to them was the clipping. It just clipped so smoothly and musically compared to diodes. The bad thing is that you have to be real careful with tweaking the frequency response of them. Too much bass and it turns to mush real easily. They distort in the bass a lot quicker than tubes do.
I originally offered the schematic as a DIY thing, but there's been a lot of commercial appeal to it, so JD Sleep approached me about making a PCB for it, he's been doing well with it. Some builders have also asked me to license the design to them. Of course, legally, they're not obligated to, but ethically, I think it's a good thing to do. I'm working on a tweaked 18V version with a built-in charge pump IC that just sounds fantastic. It is incredibly responsive and cleans up with the volume knob like no other circuit I've ever heard. It's got a lot of sustain, clarity, harmonics, everything that I thought fell short in the BSIAB2.

As far as this builder, he buys his boards from JD, so I do get some compensation. I guess I get a few laughs out of builders like this Sitori Sonics. The soldering work looks pretty amateurish. I think he's an example of the state of the pedal "industry" right now. A few years ago, there were a handful of schematics sites. No layouts, no ready-to-solder pcbs, nothing. Now, anyone with a soldering iron can be the next sensation on The Gear Page.

RnFR · Post by **RnFR** » 28 Feb 2010, 07:03

well Ed, i'd just like to say welcome. and i hope you will always know that everybody here knows where that circuit came from and will always strive to give it it's just do- as we would with with all designers of original circuits out there. and please, feel free to come and post on other subjects besides these little "aberrations" that we like to point out every once in a while.

culturejam · Post by **culturejam** » 28 Feb 2010, 15:44

Obviously, most of us here don't have an issue with cloning/tweaking/etc, but not even making your own board is kinda shitty. There's nothing especially wrong with the GGG layout, but it's basically a one-sided design on a fancy solder-masked board. There is room to make space for those big caps by going two-sided, which would be relatively trivial to do.

It's especially shitty to use a mass-market board and then try to hide it. It's double especially shitty to only half-ass attempt to hide it. And it's a real kick in the balls to up-charge for all of it.

I'd have some respect for this guy if he advertised that he used GGG boards, and he was using the savings to pass on a good price to buyers. That would cool, I think. And I also think there could be room in the market for somebody who built from GGG boards, was very upfront about it (make it part of the marketing), and charged accordingly (since no R&D is needed).

sinner · Post by **sinner** » 28 Feb 2010, 16:08

Well I changed my mind about the lame thing... If the duty goes to designer then it's ok, It's still kinda lame as he's not able to sell his own design - as well as most bootiques doesn't. Most of guys out there just grab the design, goop the shit and sell the piss out of it. If you're careful reader of FSB you know what I mean after this sequention.

The thing why he use goop to hide the GGG page link is to stop purchasers to go into DIY I suppose. This is not to difficult to go into DIY newdays. All you need is internet connection and electronic supply near by you

neoflox · Post by **neoflox** » 28 Feb 2010, 20:55

That's what you get when you use Comic Sans.

oldgravity · Post by **oldgravity** » 28 Feb 2010, 23:11

Poor Comic Sans. I don't think it's that bad for its purpose. I like serifs myself, but for something called Brownies and Cream you don't want a really serious font.

oldgravity · Post by **oldgravity** » 28 Feb 2010, 23:15

sinner wrote:Well I changed my mind about the lame thing... If the duty goes to designer then it's ok, It's still kinda lame as he's not able to sell his own design - as well as most bootiques doesn't. Most of guys out there just grab the design, goop the shit and sell the piss out of it. If you're careful reader of FSB you know what I mean after this sequention.

The thing why he use goop to hide the GGG page link is to stop purchasers to go into DIY I suppose. This is not to difficult to go into DIY newdays. All you need is internet connection and electronic supply near by you

I really don't want to reignite the hellfires, but I don't really get this reverence for a designer when the whole purpose of this forum is to build pedals without giving money to the designer. When you build a pedal from somebody's schematic, you don't send him $5 (14.50 zlotych) for his design, do you?

sinner · Post by **sinner** » 28 Feb 2010, 23:26

oldgravity wrote:
sinner wrote:Well I changed my mind about the lame thing... If the duty goes to designer then it's ok, It's still kinda lame as he's not able to sell his own design - as well as most bootiques doesn't. Most of guys out there just grab the design, goop the shit and sell the piss out of it. If you're careful reader of FSB you know what I mean after this sequention.

The thing why he use goop to hide the GGG page link is to stop purchasers to go into DIY I suppose. This is not to difficult to go into DIY newdays. All you need is internet connection and electronic supply near by you
I really don't want to reignite the hellfires, but I don't really get this reverence for a designer when the whole purpose of this forum is to build pedals without giving money to the designer. When you build a pedal from somebody's schematic, you don't send him $5 (14.50 zlotych) for his design, do you?

Well, I don't build pedals for profit

And I don't think I ever will - pedal industry holds enough noobs already

so I don't necessary feel like be ready to make an idiot of myself. I am good in the thing I'm doing now (no pedal related thing at all), and I'm here to stay. Believe me or not, but I'm really here to learn and improve my passion, I'm not suffering financially at all

Zloty is easy on me

culturejam · Post by **culturejam** » 01 Mar 2010, 00:28

oldgravity wrote:Poor Comic Sans. I don't think it's that bad for its purpose.

I disagree, sir. Comic Sans is a sign of both weakness and frivolity.

But, I worked in publishing for 10 years, and we tended to take font choice very seriously.

Ed G. · Post by **Ed G.** » 01 Mar 2010, 00:42

oldgravity wrote: I really don't want to reignite the hellfires, but I don't really get this reverence for a designer when the whole purpose of this forum is to build pedals without giving money to the designer. When you build a pedal from somebody's schematic, you don't send him $5 (14.50 zlotych) for his design, do you?

Wow, the purpose of the forum is to build pedals without compensating the designer? I thought the purpose of the forum was to learn about circuits, but maybe I was wrong all along.

Whoismarykelly · Post by **Whoismarykelly** » 01 Mar 2010, 00:48

culturejam wrote:
oldgravity wrote:Poor Comic Sans. I don't think it's that bad for its purpose.
I disagree, sir. Comic Sans is a sign of both weakness and frivolity.

But, I worked in publishing for 10 years, and we tended to take font choice very seriously.

I dont know that readability is serious business on pedals compared to a newspaper. I've been using Helvetica for most of my labeling lately with a decorative font for the pedal's name.

/typography nerd

oldgravity · Post by **oldgravity** » 01 Mar 2010, 00:51

Ed G. wrote: Wow, the purpose of the forum is to build pedals without compensating the designer? I thought the purpose of the forum was to learn about circuits, but maybe I was wrong all along.

I thought that too until I was told otherwise by the regulars.

But really, look around. You have maybe 20 people here who just want to learn about circuits. Then you have 8600 others who just want to build clones. Which is no problem, but I think it's silly to carry on with this thing about learning. How many people come here to read and furrow their brow? When people build their clones from the schems posted here, do they compensate the designer? This'll probably get carted off to the Catfight, but I'm not arguing against cloning here, I'm just saying that obviously this forum is mainly used (whether or not this was the original stated purpose) to make clones, and the original designers aren't seeing a penny from these clones. I just don't understand why that's cool sometimes but other times not.

I suppose the argument is against people making a profit as opposed to people making pedals for themselves, but people building themselves clones benefit from the work of a designer without compensating him just the same as a boutiquer making clones.

Whoismarykelly wrote:
culturejam wrote:
oldgravity wrote:Poor Comic Sans. I don't think it's that bad for its purpose.
I disagree, sir. Comic Sans is a sign of both weakness and frivolity.

But, I worked in publishing for 10 years, and we tended to take font choice very seriously.
I dont know that readability is serious business on pedals compared to a newspaper. I've been using Helvetica for most of my labeling lately with a decorative font for the pedal's name.

/typography nerd

Exactly, I think pedals are by their nature frivolous, so maybe it's not so bad to project that. Possibly better than calling your company "Robinson Appliances" as if you designed something serious like a refrigerator.

Greg · Post by **Greg** » 01 Mar 2010, 01:00

Ed G. wrote:
oldgravity wrote: I really don't want to reignite the hellfires, but I don't really get this reverence for a designer when the whole purpose of this forum is to build pedals without giving money to the designer. When you build a pedal from somebody's schematic, you don't send him $5 (14.50 zlotych) for his design, do you?
Wow, the purpose of the forum is to build pedals without compensating the designer? I thought the purpose of the forum was to learn about circuits, but maybe I was wrong all along.

Uuumm.. yeah.
That's definitely a non flattering way of describing FreeStompBoxes.. and not really how I see it, although I'm sure people come here for different reasons.

I like to think it's a source of knowledge, as well as a resource that covers just about all aspects of building your own pedals as a hobby.. and also understanding enough that you can tweak and develop them for your own taste and satisfaction.

Anyone who's developed a circuit that's become one of the "standards" deserves their dues.. and the BSIAB definitely qualifies for that ! .. and not forgetting that this design is (and always has been) freely available if someone wants to build it from scratch anyway.

I'd love to hear the new version Ed.. will it also be available for DIY as a board ?

oldgravity · Post by **oldgravity** » 01 Mar 2010, 01:02

I guess we could count the number of requests for vero layouts and use that as a metric of how much this place is about studying electronic theory.

Whoismarykelly · Post by **Whoismarykelly** » 01 Mar 2010, 01:08

oldgravity wrote:
Ed G. wrote: Wow, the purpose of the forum is to build pedals without compensating the designer? I thought the purpose of the forum was to learn about circuits, but maybe I was wrong all along.
I thought that too until I was told otherwise by the regulars.

But really, look around. You have maybe 20 people here who just want to learn about circuits. Then you have 8600 others who just want to build clones. Which is no problem, but I think it's silly to carry on with this thing about learning. How many people come here to read and furrow their brow? When people build their clones from the schems posted here, do they compensate the designer? This'll probably get carted off to the Catfight, but I'm not arguing against cloning here, I'm just saying that obviously this forum is mainly used (whether or not this was the original stated purpose) to make clones, and the original designers aren't seeing a penny from these clones. I just don't understand why that's cool sometimes but other times not.

I suppose the argument is against people making a profit as opposed to people making pedals for themselves, but people building themselves clones benefit from the work of a designer without compensating him just the same as a boutiquer making clones.

Whoismarykelly wrote:
culturejam wrote:
oldgravity wrote:Poor Comic Sans. I don't think it's that bad for its purpose.
I disagree, sir. Comic Sans is a sign of both weakness and frivolity.

But, I worked in publishing for 10 years, and we tended to take font choice very seriously.
I dont know that readability is serious business on pedals compared to a newspaper. I've been using Helvetica for most of my labeling lately with a decorative font for the pedal's name.

/typography nerd

Exactly, I think pedals are by their nature frivolous, so maybe it's not so bad to project that. Possibly better than calling your company "Robinson Appliances" as if you designed something serious like a refrigerator.

My company is called Montgomery Appliances.

oldgravity · Post by **oldgravity** » 01 Mar 2010, 01:16

Hmm. Well I use Caslon fonts on my pedals:

http://www.davidairey.com/images/typogr ... peface.gif

So I'm not saying seriousness is bad, just maybe it's ok for a goofy pedal with a goofy name and goofy insides to use a goofy font.

RnFR · Post by **RnFR** » 01 Mar 2010, 01:23

oldgravity wrote:I guess we could count the number of requests for vero layouts and use that as a metric of how much this place is about studying electronic theory.

not really sure what you are talking about. i haven't seen any of those requests. just like i haven't seen any of these-
viewforum.php?f=33

this place is what you make it. if that's all it is to you, then i have to wonder why you spend so much time here.

and as far as "reverence" is concerned, i thought it was simple courtesy to someone who put forth something for free for thousands of others to build. this thread was never about Ed anyway. it was about a goofball that tried to goop a BSIAB and failed horribly.

Greg · Post by **Greg** » 01 Mar 2010, 01:28

Each to their own I guess.

Personally I feel like I've learn a heap from FSB, but I rarely have the urge to build a clone.. and if I do it's not to save money - it's for the satisfaction of building it myself, making it look how I want, and modifying it to my taste.

If I want a vero, I draw my own.. because I learn a little every time I do that.

There's been some great contributions of both designs and ideas here.. and the regulars that have made this forum what it is are all primarily interested in an exchange of ideas.

The fact that some people may come here just for a schematic so they can build a clone of a boutique pedal is a consequence of the information available here, but not the true purpose of the forum.

oldgravity · Post by **oldgravity** » 01 Mar 2010, 01:44

RnFR wrote:
oldgravity wrote:if that's all it is to you, then i have to wonder why you spend so much time here.

It's not like I spend that much time here. I have 0.23 posts a day.

But I kind of wonder that too. I really just wanted another place to talk about electronics, because I really enjoy that. I really want it to be the thing you guys say it is. I scope the place out hoping maybe I could contribute something or learn something interesting. I think it's going to happen, so I'm optimistic.

I think it was Ghandi, -or was it Dr. Phil?-, who said, "be the change you hope to see". But also I do find myself getting into arguments with people on the internet often, and I can't stop myself from it for some reason.

One day I'll grow up.