Cusack - Screamer Fuzz V2 [gut shots]

General documentation, gut shot, schematic links, ongoing circuit tracing, deep thoughts ... all about boutique stompboxes.
Post Reply
User avatar
jimbob_400
Breadboard Brother
Information
Posts: 79
Joined: 22 Sep 2009, 20:26
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 4 times

Post by jimbob_400 »

Ladies and gentlemen,
:popcorn:
I present to you something much worse than goop...
P100422_141034.jpg
Machine soldered microscopic components! AHH.
P100422_141103.jpg
P100422_141121.jpg
So much for being able to give something back to the forum. But anyway I suppose this is still a learning opportunity. I paid £160 for this thing which is probably around $250 American dollars. Now this is less than many boutique pedals but look at what you get from Cusack! Electronic true bypass switching, top quality components, fantastic design all around (everything down to the way the artwork is engraved into the pedal enclosure and funky chicken head knobs), and a pedal that does what the manufacture said it would do. :applause:

As for the sound I am thoroughly impressed. If I remember rightly Cusack describe it as a tubescreamer but with more clarity (and on this model the tone function swapped for a fuzz section). Now it sounds like a tubescreamer but it definitely doesn't feel like one. The nasal quality is not existent and its ever so slightly more transparent. On top of this you get a lot of clarity between notes and it cleans up well.

Something that Cusack don't tell you is that the screamer section drives the fuzz section. The fuzz section sounds like a modern take on fuzz, it's not very high gain - but doesn't need to be when its going to be driven by a screamer - and starts to splutter at about 3 o'clock. Oh ya, and the bottom end is nice and tight. :)

So there you go, I'm thoroughly impressed with a boutique builder. Maybe we'll start seeing a lot more machine made pedals?

User avatar
marshmellow
Cap Cooler
Information
Posts: 469
Joined: 16 Aug 2007, 07:31
Location: Germany
Has thanked: 19 times
Been thanked: 126 times

Post by marshmellow »

I'll happily take every wave/reflow soldered pedal over something soldered by handby some self proclaimed
guitarist saviour. Then I can assume that some kind of quality control has taken place.

And there's nothing wrong with SMT for audio, at least for me. Resistors are metal film anyway, IC performance
is actually superior (which will not matter in most cases, especially guitar effects, oh well), component changes
are done way faster and easier. Film capacitors are also easily available these days, even down to pF values, only
with electrolytic caps I still chose through hole for the signal path. Also the pcb size reduction is immense.

And additionally there is a microcontroller on board for the relay bypass, just the way I like to do it (he only uses
the wrong brand :wink:). It costs current, but I don't use batteries, and it is more reliable in the long term than the
common 3PDT switches.
Last edited by marshmellow on 22 Apr 2010, 17:28, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Jack Deville
Resistor Ronker
Information
Posts: 403
Joined: 02 Apr 2009, 06:21
Completed builds: too many. too many.
Location: Portland, OR
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 86 times
Contact:

Post by Jack Deville »

What you got on Microchip!? (Just kidding, I'm guessing you're in Amtel camp?)

Cusack makes super nice stuff. His designs get slicker the farther you look into them.

On SMD: I find it to be pretty easy to work with once you get familiar with the practices. We all had to learn how to work with through-hole components right? Everything has its place and advantages/disadvantages. SMD may not be viable for small runs, but its WAAAAYYYYY cheaper to manufacture in volume (kinda staggering, really).

The controller/relay system is DEFINITELY superior to the "industry standard" switching scheme. The learning curve is considerably steeper, and more parts/work is involved, but reliability is improved by orders of magnitude (a worthwhile exchange in my book).
IIRC, Cusack has released a new product called TBS², which is a relay driven alternative for accomplishing true-bypass switching.

I've switched over the relay/controller schemes in my designs, marshmellow, can we see some examples of your work?
I'm a "professional."
Buy my products and make me rich.

www.jackdeville.com

User avatar
culturejam
Old Solderhand
Information
Posts: 4062
Joined: 24 Feb 2008, 05:59
Has thanked: 432 times
Been thanked: 562 times
Contact:

Post by culturejam »

I agree with you guys on SMD. It's just as good or better for volume production and consistency. And it is miles better than some of the "quality hand-wire" shitboxes I've seen go for hundreds of dollars (and waitlisted, no less).

Not to sidetrack this thread too much, but it seems like the only way to be popular and avoid a wait list is to go with SMD (stuffed boards, that is).


Sidenote: there is a striking resemblance between Cusack's stuff and Lovepedal's recent PCBs.

User avatar
soulsonic
Old Solderhand
Information
Posts: 3880
Joined: 27 Jun 2007, 03:38
my favorite amplifier: Traynor YVM-1
Completed builds: too many!
Location: Morgantown, WV
Has thanked: 179 times
Been thanked: 458 times
Contact:

Post by soulsonic »

culturejam wrote:Sidenote: there is a striking resemblance between Cusack's stuff and Lovepedal's recent PCBs.
I'm pretty sure Cusack manufactures all that stuff for Lovepedal as well as design it. The ProValve I had totally looked like something Cusack had manufactured.
"Analog electronics in music is dead. Analog effects pedal design is a dead art." - Fran

User avatar
oldgravity
Solder Soldier
Information
Posts: 161
Joined: 25 Mar 2009, 06:37
Location: New Orleans, LA

Post by oldgravity »

Jack Deville wrote:What you got on Microchip!? (Just kidding, I'm guessing you're in Amtel camp?)

Cusack makes super nice stuff. His designs get slicker the farther you look into them.

On SMD: I find it to be pretty easy to work with once you get familiar with the practices. We all had to learn how to work with through-hole components right? Everything has its place and advantages/disadvantages. SMD may not be viable for small runs, but its WAAAAYYYYY cheaper to manufacture in volume (kinda staggering, really).

The controller/relay system is DEFINITELY superior to the "industry standard" switching scheme. The learning curve is considerably steeper, and more parts/work is involved, but reliability is improved by orders of magnitude (a worthwhile exchange in my book).
IIRC, Cusack has released a new product called TBS², which is a relay driven alternative for accomplishing true-bypass switching.

I've switched over the relay/controller schemes in my designs, marshmellow, can we see some examples of your work?
Why do you guys prefer using an MCU with your relay instead of a simpler discrete relay switching scheme? What sort of fancy stuff are you doing in the controller besides sending on/off?

One thing I thought was that it would be nice to have a delay with trails but also true bypass (although I am no TB nazi) by setting a delay in the microcontroller so that you hit the bypass switch, it switches the input to the circuit off, waits some time, then switches the output to the circuit off.

User avatar
Jack Deville
Resistor Ronker
Information
Posts: 403
Joined: 02 Apr 2009, 06:21
Completed builds: too many. too many.
Location: Portland, OR
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 86 times
Contact:

Post by Jack Deville »

oldgravity wrote: Why do you guys prefer using an MCU with your relay instead of a simpler discrete relay switching scheme? What sort of fancy stuff are you doing in the controller besides sending on/off?
There are many reasons to opt for a microcontroller solution.
First and foremost: FAST (to make, to execute, to install, to produce, to assemble to ______, etc.)
Next: The controller can perform other functions simultaneously.
Next: The controller can filter out "accidental" inputs, loss of power, store settings, etc.
Next: I think it doesn't get any simpler than a controller. This is subjective and every instance is different, but for my needs, this is the way to go.
oldgravity wrote: One thing I thought was that it would be nice to have a delay with trails but also true bypass (although I am no TB nazi) by setting a delay in the microcontroller so that you hit the bypass switch, it switches the input to the circuit off, waits some time, then switches the output to the circuit off.
I have a design for this, I can email you a schematic if you would like. It is tested, solid and quiet. I considered producing a mod board for TB delay pedals, but there is just too much going on right now to tie up resources in that project.
I'm a "professional."
Buy my products and make me rich.

www.jackdeville.com

User avatar
jimbob_400
Breadboard Brother
Information
Posts: 79
Joined: 22 Sep 2009, 20:26
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 4 times

Post by jimbob_400 »

Would anyone care to explain how the Cusack (or any) style relay switching design works? :)

I've also noticed the similarities between lovepedal gear and cusack gear... I remember reading somewhere that john cusack gets the switches made for him or something and so I was a bit surprised seeing the same style switches on a lovepedal design.

User avatar
mcaviel
Solder Soldier
Information
Posts: 185
Joined: 18 Nov 2009, 11:41
Has thanked: 70 times
Been thanked: 17 times

Post by mcaviel »

culturejam wrote:Sidenote: there is a striking resemblance between Cusack's stuff and Lovepedal's recent PCBs.
After loading the gut shots i was thinking the same.

User avatar
sinner
Old Solderhand
Information
Posts: 4710
Joined: 06 Nov 2008, 17:16
Location: ...no more
Has thanked: 1031 times
Been thanked: 907 times

Post by sinner »

I wish myself to see schematics of this one more than anything other... Thanks for the gutshots, it's always something... I don't know why I was thinking it's two circuits parenall and mixed together

User avatar
Greg
Old Solderhand
Information
Posts: 3047
Joined: 03 Nov 2007, 09:35
my favorite amplifier: Tophat Emplexador & Supreme 16.
Completed builds: LOTS..
Location: Australia
Has thanked: 64 times
Been thanked: 163 times

Post by Greg »

culturejam wrote:
Sidenote: there is a striking resemblance between Cusack's stuff and Lovepedal's recent PCBs.
Cusack is doing all that stuff for Lovepedal.. smd design and layouts, switching, etc... and I'm sure he's supplying the loaded boards as well.
culturejam wrote: We are equal opportunity exposure artists.

User avatar
Jack Deville
Resistor Ronker
Information
Posts: 403
Joined: 02 Apr 2009, 06:21
Completed builds: too many. too many.
Location: Portland, OR
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 86 times
Contact:

Post by Jack Deville »

jimbob_400 wrote:Would anyone care to explain how the Cusack (or any) style relay switching design works? :)

I've also noticed the similarities between lovepedal gear and cusack gear... I remember reading somewhere that john cusack gets the switches made for him or something and so I was a bit surprised seeing the same style switches on a lovepedal design.
Hey, jimbob.

Just as there are a million ways to design an preamp, there are a million ways to design a relay bypass system.

Here are some ideas to consider:
The most common I've seen in "DIY" designs use non-latching relays (power applied to the relay to engage) and a latching footswitch. This is a cheap and easy way to make a relay work. You will switch power (or ground) to the relay coil, hopefully, there is some type of current limiting designed into the network. Once the power is applied to the relay coil, the switch engages and you're in business.
The downsides to these designs are plentiful (in stompbox application). In many modern amplifiers, you will see similar schemes, but the current consumed by the relay switching system is nominal when compared to the total current drawn by the rest of the circuit. In a stompbox, current consumption can often be a concern, and for this reason, non-latching relay bypass systems can be a bad idea; or if current consumption is a non-issue at best a moot point. To compound the issue, you still must use a latching switch, or design an bistable oscillator or flip-flop to manage the current to the coil, and thus the state of the effect circuit. This is where things get a little more complicated and cost becomes an issue. AND, you've gotta design a separate indicator circuit, if you want one. As I see it, why mess with all the extra parts if you're still using the same fundamental parts to control the addition?
Another alternative is a latching relay system. Latching relays require power to be applied to the coil for a short duration of time in order for the relay to toggle states and "latch" into the desired position. Sounds simple enough, right? It gets tricky, and here are a few reasons why:
Latching relays generally require either two separate coils (engage and disengage) or reverse polarity of the coil. It would make sense to just use the variety with two separate coils, but then you must design a flip-flop to select which coil you wish to engage. You also must keep the power applied for a short duration (recommended operating conditions can be found in the part specific datasheet). Simple enough, right? Kinda. Get a few and begin playing around with some designs. Its lots of fun!
The other flavor of latching relays require reverse polarity of the coil (that is to say, + and - must be alternated to toggle the relay). So, with this variety, you must now design a flip-flop that will swap POLARITY of the output, and be able to sink/source enough current, for a specified duration, to drive the relay coil. Sounds easy enough, right? We haven't talked about some of the nuances to inductors used in this fashion yet. Here's where it gets really fun (er, difficult).
The coil in the relay is really just an inductor. Inductors exhibit an interesting behavior when you remove power from them. They produce a spike in current as the magnetic field (produced by the current flowing through the coil) collapses. Its really quite simple when you think about it. However, this presents its own problems and considerations. Depending on how you've designed your control circuitry, this could present a major problem, when negative suddenly becomes very positive and positive suddenly becomes very negative. There are ways to compensate/adapt to this inherent behavior. Inductive Kickback diodes can be employed to allow a constant current path for the sudden reverse voltage. However, if this diode is placed as a permanent fixture in the coil's network, the relay will only be allowed to operate in one way (as reversing the current will circumvent the coil and simply flow through the diode--probably not a good thing). Now we're getting into the fun stuff. It gets better.
Another nuance to inductors and magnetic fields is the inductive nature of current. Think about an alternator: basically, it is just a magnet (or group of magnets) passing over a coil (or coils) of wire. When the magnet passes close enough to the coil, electrons are drawn toward the magnet. As the magnet begins to travel farther away from the coil, the electrons return to their "original" position. Well, something has to fill the void as all the electrons migrate towards the magnet, and what does? more electrons. Once they return to their original positions the electrons who took their place must return as well. So we have electrons moving around, changing the potential difference of the conductor resulting in what we call alternating current! Sorry for the side track, but its important to understand what happens in the relay. The same concept happens when the coil saturates. A magnetic field builds up around the coil (and whatever conductor happens to be in the vicinity) when power is applied to the coil, said field also collapses when power is removed from the coil. This results in the kickback voltage discussed above. The downside is that this voltage can also be induced into any nearby conductors. it will likely be a nominal voltage, but if there are sensitive inputs to amplifiers (in a stompbox, this can be a concern...) the amplifiers may pick up this small voltage and turn it into a BIG voltage, resulting in a sudden noise in the circuit.

Those are a few considerations as to the operation of a relay bypass circuit for stompbox application. Its up to the designer to make everything perform.
This is getting kinda long, but I think you can draw some conclusions based on the information above.
I'm a "professional."
Buy my products and make me rich.

www.jackdeville.com

User avatar
jimbob_400
Breadboard Brother
Information
Posts: 79
Joined: 22 Sep 2009, 20:26
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 4 times

Post by jimbob_400 »

Jack Deville wrote:
jimbob_400 wrote:Would anyone care to explain how the Cusack (or any) style relay switching design works? :)

I've also noticed the similarities between lovepedal gear and cusack gear... I remember reading somewhere that john cusack gets the switches made for him or something and so I was a bit surprised seeing the same style switches on a lovepedal design.
Hey, jimbob.

Just as there are a million ways to design an preamp, there are a million ways to design a relay bypass system.

Here are some ideas to consider:
The most common I've seen in "DIY" designs use non-latching relays (power applied to the relay to engage) and a latching footswitch. This is a cheap and easy way to make a relay work. You will switch power (or ground) to the relay coil, hopefully, there is some type of current limiting designed into the network. Once the power is applied to the relay coil, the switch engages and you're in business.
The downsides to these designs are plentiful (in stompbox application). In many modern amplifiers, you will see similar schemes, but the current consumed by the relay switching system is nominal when compared to the total current drawn by the rest of the circuit. In a stompbox, current consumption can often be a concern, and for this reason, non-latching relay bypass systems can be a bad idea; or if current consumption is a non-issue at best a moot point. To compound the issue, you still must use a latching switch, or design an bistable oscillator or flip-flop to manage the current to the coil, and thus the state of the effect circuit. This is where things get a little more complicated and cost becomes an issue. AND, you've gotta design a separate indicator circuit, if you want one. As I see it, why mess with all the extra parts if you're still using the same fundamental parts to control the addition?
Another alternative is a latching relay system. Latching relays require power to be applied to the coil for a short duration of time in order for the relay to toggle states and "latch" into the desired position. Sounds simple enough, right? It gets tricky, and here are a few reasons why:
Latching relays generally require either two separate coils (engage and disengage) or reverse polarity of the coil. It would make sense to just use the variety with two separate coils, but then you must design a flip-flop to select which coil you wish to engage. You also must keep the power applied for a short duration (recommended operating conditions can be found in the part specific datasheet). Simple enough, right? Kinda. Get a few and begin playing around with some designs. Its lots of fun!
The other flavor of latching relays require reverse polarity of the coil (that is to say, + and - must be alternated to toggle the relay). So, with this variety, you must now design a flip-flop that will swap POLARITY of the output, and be able to sink/source enough current, for a specified duration, to drive the relay coil. Sounds easy enough, right? We haven't talked about some of the nuances to inductors used in this fashion yet. Here's where it gets really fun (er, difficult).
The coil in the relay is really just an inductor. Inductors exhibit an interesting behavior when you remove power from them. They produce a spike in current as the magnetic field (produced by the current flowing through the coil) collapses. Its really quite simple when you think about it. However, this presents its own problems and considerations. Depending on how you've designed your control circuitry, this could present a major problem, when negative suddenly becomes very positive and positive suddenly becomes very negative. There are ways to compensate/adapt to this inherent behavior. Inductive Kickback diodes can be employed to allow a constant current path for the sudden reverse voltage. However, if this diode is placed as a permanent fixture in the coil's network, the relay will only be allowed to operate in one way (as reversing the current will circumvent the coil and simply flow through the diode--probably not a good thing). Now we're getting into the fun stuff. It gets better.
Another nuance to inductors and magnetic fields is the inductive nature of current. Think about an alternator: basically, it is just a magnet (or group of magnets) passing over a coil (or coils) of wire. When the magnet passes close enough to the coil, electrons are drawn toward the magnet. As the magnet begins to travel farther away from the coil, the electrons return to their "original" position. Well, something has to fill the void as all the electrons migrate towards the magnet, and what does? more electrons. Once they return to their original positions the electrons who took their place must return as well. So we have electrons moving around, changing the potential difference of the conductor resulting in what we call alternating current! Sorry for the side track, but its important to understand what happens in the relay. The same concept happens when the coil saturates. A magnetic field builds up around the coil (and whatever conductor happens to be in the vicinity) when power is applied to the coil, said field also collapses when power is removed from the coil. This results in the kickback voltage discussed above. The downside is that this voltage can also be induced into any nearby conductors. it will likely be a nominal voltage, but if there are sensitive inputs to amplifiers (in a stompbox, this can be a concern...) the amplifiers may pick up this small voltage and turn it into a BIG voltage, resulting in a sudden noise in the circuit.

Those are a few considerations as to the operation of a relay bypass circuit for stompbox application. Its up to the designer to make everything perform.
This is getting kinda long, but I think you can draw some conclusions based on the information above.
Ooo. Thank you.

I assume most stompbox builders use the first latching type then? Second one sounds, well, pointless in a low cost/low parts/easy to design stompbox application.

Could you recommend a specific relay(s) to have a play with?

User avatar
jimbob_400
Breadboard Brother
Information
Posts: 79
Joined: 22 Sep 2009, 20:26
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 4 times

Post by jimbob_400 »

http://www.cusackmusic.com/images/normal/Connectors.jpg

gut shot of the old screamer from cusacks website.

The differences between this and the new v2 screamer fuzz are selectable clipping options (led, symmetrical and crushed - whatever crushed is, it just sounds like an ultra smooth high gain pointless option, imo!), a fuzz section in place of the tone section and new mostly machine soldered components.

If this is a possible project i will do everything i can to help here. I think the v1 screamer from the gut shot above is possible to trace.

*just realized we won't know cap values.

Would any more gut shots of the v2 fuzz be helpful?

Ill have a little prod around with a multimeter sometime as well if people want some numbers.

Post Reply