Two-Rock and Carvin Belair

DWBH · Post by **DWBH** » 14 Nov 2007, 22:38

ATTENTION: I'm not asking for schematics. Though I wouldn't mind.

I LOVE John Mayer's tone. Seems he's using his Signature Two-Rock amp - which is a Custom Reverb Sig amp with some mods. I've seen him also with a Bassman (Victoria, not Fender, I think).

What are these Two-Rock amps based on?

Completely new design?
Or something based on the Fender eras? Blackface, Brownface?

These amps seem to have the headroom of a Blackface, but not as bright or as "cold". They seem more hot (though punchy), like a Tweed.

Now, I'm a noob about tubes and amps, so please correct me if I said sth wrong.

----

What about the Carvin Belair?

bajaman · Post by **bajaman** » 14 Nov 2007, 22:54

I have the Carvin BelAir schematic - email me baja002@clear.net.nz if you want it

bajaman

DWBH · Post by **DWBH** » 14 Nov 2007, 22:56

bajaman wrote:I have the Carvin BelAir schematic - email me baja002@clear.net.nz if you want it
bajaman

So done

vanessa · Post by **vanessa** » 14 Nov 2007, 23:32

DWBH wrote: What are these Two-Rock amps based on?

Most likely some Fender variant. Just about everything has its roots in some Fender design or another.

soulsonic · Post by **soulsonic** » 15 Nov 2007, 00:19

$10,000 for the Overdrive Signature?!!!!
It doesn't look like no $10,000 amp... looks like my prices just went up to $15,000...

chris_d · Post by **chris_d** » 15 Nov 2007, 03:07

vanessa wrote:
DWBH wrote: What are these Two-Rock amps based on?

Most likely some Fender variant. Just about everything has its roots in some Fender design or another.

Specifically they are a continuation of the development of the Dumble-style Fender variant. Those Two Rock guys get cranky when you call them Dumble clones, but they are basically coming straight from that framework.

-chris

soulsonic · Post by **soulsonic** » 15 Nov 2007, 03:40

Looks like they're "inspired" by Dumble's prices too.

vanessa · Post by **vanessa** » 15 Nov 2007, 04:27

chris_d wrote:
vanessa wrote:
DWBH wrote: What are these Two-Rock amps based on?

Most likely some Fender variant. Just about everything has its roots in some Fender design or another.
Specifically they are a continuation of the development of the Dumble-style Fender variant.
-chris

Rrrrrrrreally, you don't say...

bacaruda · Post by **bacaruda** » 15 Nov 2007, 15:46

I'm pretty sure their amps are all Dumble/TW clones. Read Dave Hunter's interview with Ken Fischer - Ken talks about TR in there and what they stole from him. One if their amps is a dead clone of the Express but with a master volume and fx loop. Kinda defeats the purpose if you ask me.

I think JM's tone actually has more to do with his fingers than his amps - I don't care for his music much, but he really is a great player. A strat with good pickups and a fender amp will get you "that" tone IMO.

DougH · Post by **DougH** » 15 Nov 2007, 18:22

I played a 2R at an amp fest a few years ago. I can't remember the model and don't know what, if any, existing amp it was supposed to be based on. It was an EL84 output section and had a bazillion knobs & switches on the preamp.

I couldn't stand it... "So many controls- so little tone" I guess would be the way to describe it. I never could dial up a decent sound with it. It reminded me of an old Boogey in that regard. If it takes me a half hour to dial up a decent sound (and in this case I still failed) I figure what's the point? Give me a well-designed, simple, even primitive amp any day over one of these "knob monsters". Some of these "swiss army knife" control panels just strike me as band-aids, rubber bands, and bailing wire intended to fix something that was not designed right in the first place, or at least thought out a little ahead of time.

jt · Post by jt » 15 Nov 2007, 18:35

Mayer's amp surely looks and sounds like a Dumble inspired amp.If you are interested in that kind of amps you should join ampgarage forum.Lot's of info there.

Bernardduur · Post by **Bernardduur** » 15 Nov 2007, 20:58

Yes, on ampgarage there was a 2rock dissected and it has a lot of similarities to the Dumble

DWBH · Post by **DWBH** » 15 Nov 2007, 21:34

Which Dumble?

soulsonic · Post by **soulsonic** » 15 Nov 2007, 22:06

The Overdrive Special seems to be one of the Dumbles that's most obviously copied by Two Rock.

I agree with Doug as far as general views on amps are concerned. I'd take a nice sounding primitive amp any day over a zillion knob monster. Though I admit, I do like the whole fancy high gain/channel switching thing - I can even get into 3 and 4 channel beasts - but each channel should be simple and good sounding.
I remember trying out one of those four-channel Egnater amps at Make n' Music in Chicago, and even though there was alot of knobs because of all the channels, each channel was pretty straightforward and they all sounded good. I like those amps where you can pretty much set the knobs anywhere and it will sound good, and the Egnater seemed to do that pretty well.

That being said... I've done entire gigs with one channel and no pedals, so if the amp's got "it", nothing else matters. And if the amp doesn't have "it", there's usually nothing you can do to fix it other than get a different amp.

bajaman · Post by **bajaman** » 16 Nov 2007, 00:21

All these discussions about amplifiers are meaningless without mentioning the speakers used with them.

Just call me Mr ALNICO

bajaman

soulsonic · Post by **soulsonic** » 16 Nov 2007, 02:02

No way, man - it's only Field Coils for me, all the way! Field Coil speakers are the new super mojo!

I like Alnico in small amps, and Ceramic with big amps.

Bernardduur · Post by **Bernardduur** » 16 Nov 2007, 11:15

bajaman wrote:All these discussions about amplifiers are meaningless without mentioning the speakers used with them.
Just call me Mr ALNICO
bajaman

+1

I LOVE my Dumble with the Eminence AlNiCo's; just complete my sound!

seniorLoco · Post by **seniorLoco** » 23 Nov 2007, 04:22

i have got MM HD150 4x6L6 into a 4x12 Fane loaded Soundcity cab (apparently made by Dallas Arbiter).

So ....i got all this booteek amp owners always begging me to sell it .... i wonder why ...its got crappy ss pre's but mind blowing power section tho.
plus a freaky phasor ...

Maybe its the speakers

soulsonic · Post by **soulsonic** » 23 Nov 2007, 06:28

Old Fane speakers are supposed to be valuable to collectors. People say they sound good. Do yours sound good?
Alot of my friends used Music Man amps... they had them because they could get them cheap. During the mid-90's I think the average Music Man amp sold for $250 to $350. I remember when Silverface Fenders sold for about that much too. I have a '68 Silverface Dual Showman, and when I was in High School I tore it up and modded it to death because I didn't think it'd ever really be worth anything because people were always talking about how the Blackface ones were the good ones and the Silverface ones were junk. Now the Silverface ones sell for as much as the Blackface ones used to.
I don't understand why. To me, Silverface Fenders and Music Mans were always supposed to be the cool budget priced vintage amps that you could find for cheap because it was understood that they don't usually sound that great. Now, people don't care if an amp sounds crummy - if it says Fender on it and it's old then it's automatically valuable. I think that's stupid.

seniorLoco · Post by **seniorLoco** » 28 Nov 2007, 03:00

The Fane is an experience .... but it needs higher watt amps to push it to sonic bliss. So it couples well with my 150watt MusicMan especially at louder volume levels.....it just craves power. I hope they reissue these speakers .....bloody good i tell ya.

The clarity of the above combo helps me tweak pedals as i can hear almost everything .... i am glad to own em.